Subject: Re: Baptism in Galilee

From: [email-masked] (Ivan Ickovits)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 06:17:11 -0800

Wan't this Baptisn just the extension of the jewish ritual of subnersion 
in a mikvah -  i.e. ritual purification before the sabbath, or high 
holidays etc.  or general rites of transition for becoming a bar mitzvah 
or marriage, etc.?

>
>I am doing research on baptism "movements" in Galilee during the 3rd 
>cent. BCE to 1st cent. CE. I have collected various textual evidence for 
>the existence of these movements.
>
>The texts include: Sybilline Oracles 3 & 4; Qumran texts; Josephus; the 
>NT; and references to Ebionites and Elechasaites in Epiphanius. The 
>question I have is: Joseph Thomas talks about movements; Robert Webb 
>talks about movements; but what kind of evidence do we have of the actual 
>practice of baptism in this time? Does the evidence point to Mesopotamian 
>influences? or is the phenomenon indigenous?
>
>The big question is: what did baptism mean? the same thing for all of 
>them? or different things? Compare, for example, what Robert Webb says 
>about baptism and its significance in Qumran (basically as a means of 
>maintaining cultic purity) and what r. Gray says (maintaining purity in 
>order to be able to prophesy). And what does this have to do with Bannus 
>or John the Baptist?
>
>Another question is: what relationship does baptism have to do with 
>apocalyptic, in the sense of a religious world view?
>
>
>
>Charles David Miller		| Reality is not limited to the familiar,
>University of New Mexico	| the commonplace, for it consists in huge
>(505) 867-1892			| part of a latent, as yet unspoken future
>				| Word. -- F. Dostoevskey, _Notebooks_
>
>
>
>

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From: Charles Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:49:10 -0700 (MST)

> holidays etc.  or general rites of transition for becoming a bar mitzvah 

I have not heard this theory before. Webb associates the Qumran 
purifications with those that occurred in the Temple. Rebecca Gray talks 
about their relationship to a hypothetical technique for teaching how to 
prophesy. I have not heard of an origin for the purifications performed 
by Bannus and John the Baptist. Some authors do note how *different* 
John's baptism seems to be from Qumran, i.e., a single baptism for the 
forgiveness of sins.

According to Mani's autobiography, the Elchasaites practised daily 
purification--bodily and of their food.

Do you have some sources for this thesis?