Subject: Re: John 15:5

From: Jean VALENTIN <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 97 21:19:38 +0200

>"For WITHOUT me ye can do nothing" (John 15:5).
>
>I wonder about the word "without" (CWRIS). As I see it, from the Greek it 
>can be translated "severed from" or "apart from". But what is the 
>*Syriac* versional evidence here? That version may in some points be 
>quite near to the words Jesus used in aramaic. 
>
>My question is: Are there some suggestions as to what word Jesus may have 
>used here and what the fundamental meanings of that word is??
>
Here's what we find in the syriac and syropalestinian versions :
vetus syra (sys, deest syc) : bel(oday "without me"
peshitto : d-lo eno "without me"
syropalestinian (lectionaries, deest Climacus) : l-bar menni "outside of 
me"
As you see, all three are different!

This is not really textual criticism though. The research of the 
"ipsissima verba" of Jesus through the use of the aramaic versions raises 
many problems... Several books were published here in Europe about this 
(or about hebrew versions, with the same method or lack of it), and often 
they come from un-scholarly integrist or fundamentalistic circles... 
Their affirmations have been severely criticized by renowned biblical 
scholars.

As to the Aramaic that Jesus could have used, though the syropalestinien 
version seems to appear later chronologically, it has the advantage of 
being a western aramaic dialect, probably closer to what Jesus spoke. 
Syriac is eastern aramaic, though some scholars noticed several slight 
western influences in the old syriac version.

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Jean Valentin - 58/7 rue Van Kalck - 1080 Bruxelles - BELGIQUE
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email : [email-masked]   ***   netmail : 2:291/780.103
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Ce qui est trop simple est faux, ce qui est trop complique est 
inutilisable.
What's too simple is wrong, what's too complicated is unusable.
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