Subject: Re: Ehrman presidential address

From: Peter Diebenow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:48:01 -0600

At 09:30 AM 4/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Bart Ehrman, president of the Southeastern SBL region this year, presented
>a paper at the recent meeting of the group in Macon.  His paper, entitled
>"The Neglect of the Firstborn in New Testament Studies," is a plea for the
>necessity of engaging in textual criticism as the first step in exegesis.
>In his paper he explores the variants in Luke 22:19-20 to illustrate his
>point. 

               <<Snippets>>

>Ehrman's address is now accessible on TELA at
>http://scholar.cc.emory.edu/scripts/TC/extras/ehrman-pres.html, and it has
>been added to the TC-Links page
>(http://scholar.cc.emory.edu/scripts/TC/TC-links.html). 
>
>Jimmy Adair

Thank you for this article and its location, Jim. I have just read it.

As a non-scholar but very interested student of the Bible, I have two
questions about this article. 

In the following quote I am left with the impression that he agrees with
Thiede's claims. Am I misreading Ehrman here? (Hasn't that claim been put to
rest?)

          "... very few highly trained New Testament scholars are able actually
          to dispute the claims of Carston Thiede found in a major article
of Time
          Magazine that one of our papyrus MSS, P64, in fact dates to the 
          middle of the first century and may represent an eyewitness account 
          of the life of Jesus by one of his followers."

My second question: Will this article/paper be discussed on this list? I am
interested in a response to his thesis as well as his example. (The
longer/shorter version of Luke 22:19-21)?

I found his style interesting, easy to read and understand, and welcome
responses from members on this list. Thank you!

--pete

____________________________________________________________
    
    		               Peter Diebenow, Interim Minister 
(As of 5/15/96 serving as a Vacancy Pastor, Charity Lutheran, Burleson, TX) 
(817)792-3271(Voice) 	    [email-masked]           (817)275-5641 (FAX)

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From: Andrew Kulikovsky <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 21:47:43 +0900

> responses from members on this list. Thank you!

What does P64 actually contain? Does it contain Biblical books or
sections or is it a pseudopigraphic document?

cheers,
Andrew

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From: Nichael Lynn Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:08:57 -0500

>Thank you for this article and its location, Jim. I have just read it.

Ditto.

>          of the life of Jesus by one of his followers."

I think, that in context, it is very hard to argue that Prof Ehrman is
supporting Thiede's claim.  More generally Ehrman's point is that the
principles of textual criticism (and, indeed, much of Greek itself) is
outside the "toolkit" of many practicing scholars --to say nothing of the
non-specialist.

But more to the point, the complete paragraph from which you quote make, I
feel, Prof Ehrman's position perfectly clear:

"This is raw ignorance in one of its most crass forms, an ignorance that can
be and has been fed upon by well-meaning incompetents and glory-seeking
cranks. Very few people in our society have any grounds whatsoever to
evaluate the claims that the words of the King James Translation are
themselves inspired by God; very few highly trained New Testament scholars
are able actually to dispute the claims of Carston Thiede found in a major
article of Time Magazine that one of our papyrus MSS, P64, in fact dates to
the middle of the first century and may represent an eyewitness account of
the life of Jesus by one of his followers. There are lots of knees jerking
over these issues, but very few minds working. At the very least scholars of
the NT should be equipped to deal with these matters. And, in fact, the
training that can prepare them to do so can prove salutary for other
reasons, since considerations of the problems of the text naturally involve
so many areas of research interest to scholars of the Bible and early
Christianity."