Subject: Re: Roman's Doxology

From: Jim West <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:50:07 -0500 (EST)

Our discussion of the patristic evidence has led to the suggestion (by me)
that the use of the father's as evidence for a textual reading is hazardous.
Others have asked for evidence; so, here is a list of apparent quotations
from the fathers which do not seem to reflect the text as we have it.

Chrysostom- hom. 48 in John (on Jn 7:1)
Origen- On Prayer (on the Lord's Prayer from Mt and Lk).
Origen- hom 6.40 in John.
Epiphanius- Panarion (on Mk 5:2-14).
Amphilochius- hom on Luke 7:36-50

further, the following texts are used by various of the fathers with various
texts;
Lk 10:42
John 7:1

(See Fee, "Studies in the Theory and Method of NT TC", p. 344ff)

Jim

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jim West, ThD
Adjunct Professor of Bible, Quartz Hill School of Theology
[email-masked]

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From: "John Brogan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:37:45 EST5EDT

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Jim West wrote...

> that the use of the father's as evidence for a textual reading is hazardous.

Jim, why is the consideration of patristic evidence "hazardous?" 
Hazardous for what?  What is the apparent "danger?" Whom else
(besides the versions) shall we consult for evidence of the history
of the transmission of the NT text?  The fathers' treatment of the
text  is precisely the type of evidence we need to understand how and
why the biblical text was being changed...

> (See Fee, "Studies in the Theory and Method of NT TC", p. 344ff)

Please expand on this.  I am not quite certain what this list
represents or  why it proves your point that patristic evidence is
"hazardous."  In the case of patristic readings, I would argue that
two possibilities exist.  Either...

(1)  The father is citing a text that is available to him, thus 
making his citation an important witness for discussing variant 
readings... or...

(2) The father has "created" the reading, thus making it important to 
see if his citation had any influence on the transmission of the 
text.

In either case, a close examination of how and why the father cites 
his text in this way is extremely important...

John Brogan

> Jim

====================================
John J. Brogan
Assistant Professor of Religion
Department of Religion and Theology
Calvin College
(616) 957-6322