Subject: Re: Genesis 4:8

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:09:09 +0000

On 13 Apr 1997 Huey Bahr wrote:

>In Genesis 4:8 the KJV has

>And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they
>were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew 
>him.

>the Douay has

>And Cain said to Abel his brother: Let us go forth abroad. And when they
>were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and slew him.

>At first glance I would say "Let us go forth abroad." should be
>dismissed as an obvious addition because (1) the reading given in the KJV 
>is shorter, and in general one should prefer the shorter reading. (2) the 
>evidence for the longer reading is based on the versions (LXX/Vulgate) 
>where as the evidence for the shorter reading is in the original 
>language.

>But I noticed the RSV and the NIV both follow the longer reading.  Are 
>they picking up on something I'm missing?

[me now]
This is a welcomed exercise to look into the apparatus of the BHS. There, 
there is a notation concerning the variant in 4:8 which says:

mlt Mss Edd hic interv; frt ins c ~ GSV {"Let us go forth abroad."} cf. 
TjjII

I *translate* this into (using their English Key and the info in the 
Intro):

Many medieval mss of the Hebrew OT, [many] Editions of the Hebrew OT,  
here (in this place [have an?])  interval; (fortasse) perhaps insert (cum) 
with Samaritan Hebrew Pentateuch The Septuagint The Syriac version of OT 
The Vulgate {"Let us go forth abroad."} Compare The Targums (Targum 
Pseudo-Jonathae secundum M. Ginsburger, Pseudo-Jonathan 1903 & Targum 
Hierosolymitanum secundum M. Ginsburger, Das Fragmententhargum 1899)

So, the witnesses to the longer reading are:
(1) The Samaritan Hebrew Pentateuch
(2) LXX
(3) Syriac OT
(4) Vulg.
(5) Plus perhaps two Targums

In connection with another variant (Luke 3:35,36 "Shelah-Cainan-Arphaxad" 
with Gen 10:24 "Shelah-Arpachshad" [No Cainan], also 1 Chr 1:18 --- note 
the following: in Gen 10:24 LXX has Cainan, and in 1 Chr LXX (Codex 
Alexandrinus, etc., also includes Cainan. BTW, I did not see any variant 
in Luke 3:35,36) *forgive the long parentisis!*, anyway, a former 
prof. of mine commented:

Are not those witnesses (noted above) older than the masoretic text in 
which BHS is based (Leningrad Codex B19^A (L) - dated 1009 or 1008 AD)?

The same prof. made the observation that seemingly Luke had a witness 
to the inclusion of Cainan which is not found in  L. Perhaps the same 
witness(es) had the same text of that Ms(s) which served as the basis for 
the LXX, Vulg, etc. I grant that my theological presuppositions force me 
to correct the L text in those OT passages with the NT text of Luke.

Now, back to Gen 4:8:
Plus, a search for the string "and (he) said" in the BHS gave 1896 verses, 
there are 315 in Genesis alone. I looked at over 100x, in these there was 
always a phrase or word(s) which stated what was said. I suspect that it 
is true in most if not all the rest of the 1896x! 

I've never seen an OT ms (just images in the web), but just looking to the 
BHS, could it be possible that the scribe of L *jumped* from the Nun 
(first letter of "lets us go") to the Waw (conjuction, first letter in 
"and it came to pass"), these two letters look very much the same, 
specially if there were already "vowel" points in the ms (either L or the 
ms(s) from which L's scribe was working), since the Waw with the Pathat 
looks like a Nun. That way, by simple Homoioteleuton the phrase "let us go 
forth abroad" could have been lost in L. (Or, for that case, in the 
masoretic tradition).

I suspect that the RSV & NIV followed the LXX in this case.

Francisco Orozco
Trinity Ministerial Academy 1991-1995
(Montville NJ USA)
[email-masked]
Nashville NC USA

---

From: "James R. Adair" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT)

> (5) Plus perhaps two Targums

Targum Neofiti may also support the reading.  It includes the phrase "let
us go into the field," followed by a fairly long report of a dispute
between Cain and Abel over the justice of God, etc.  The use of targumic
witnesses to the text requires special care, however, hence the "cf." in
the BHS apparatus.

> to correct the L text in those OT passages with the NT text of Luke.

Mss of Luke do predate L and other medieval mss, but the testimony of Luke
should be seen as a witness to the text of the LXX in the first century,
since the NT (including Luke) regularly cites the Greek rather than the
Hebrew (with a few exceptions).  TON KAINAN KAI KAINAN EGENNHSEN could
have been omitted easily by parablepsis in the forerunner of the MT,
making the LXX reading preferable.  On the other hand, Wevers (Notes on
the Greek Text of Genesis) points to 11:12-13, where Kainan also appears,
replete with a specified lifespan before and after the birth of a son.  He
suggests that Kainan has been inserted by the forerunner of the LXX (or by
the translator?) in order to produce a schema of 10 generations from Adam
to Noah and 10 generations from Arpachshad to Abram (cf. Matthew's
genealogy). 

I have to comment on the statement, "my theological presuppositions force
me to correct the L text in those OT passages with the NT text of Luke."
Aside from being questionable from a text-critical point of view, isn't
this putting the cart before the horse?  Shouldn't one's theological
presuppositions (or conclusions) be based on the text, not vice versa?

> forth abroad" could have been lost in L. (Or, for that case, in the 

The reading of the MT surely predates by a long time the earliest medieval
manuscripts.  The omission of Kainan is found in LXX mss 911 (3rd C) and
961 (4th C) (among others).  Although these readings could be independent
examples of parablepsis, it seems more likely that they represent sporadic
corrections in the direction of the MT.  Some, but not all, of the
hexaplaric mss also omit the reference to Kainan here.

> I suspect that the RSV & NIV followed the LXX in this case.

I'm sure that's true.

Jimmy Adair
Manager of Information Technology Services, Scholars Press
    and
Managing Editor of TELA, the Scholars Press World Wide Web Site
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