Subject: Re: 1 Cor 11:10 - Irenaeus

From: "ROLAN, BRET R" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 10:28:43 -0500

Mr. Waltz:

Thank you for your reply, and your request for clarification.

The quote from Irenaeus was taken from Vol. 1 of "The Ante-Nicene 
Fathers", Ed. (Trans?) Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson.  The 
introductory notes (Cleveland Coxe?) indicate that the verse in question 
(in book 1) was extant in Greek, and the translator provides the Greek 
work used (KALUMMA) in a footnote.

You also state that "many of the versions gloss this reading".  Which 
ones, and are they consistant?

Bret R. Rolan

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From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:08:24 -0500 (CDT)

>work used (KALUMMA) in a footnote.

Just a note: That series is not overly reliable. The translations
are made from old, non-critical editions. In this case you can
probably trust it, but don't rely on it too much.

>ones, and are they consistant?

The ones I can find in my library (not a comprehensive list) are:

* Certain Vulgate manuscripts: colb harl** wil? al
* mss of the Bohairic Coptic
* The Armenian

Also several Fathers:

* Irenaeus-lat (Greek?)
* Tertullian-pt
* Jerome
* Augustine-pt
* Bede
* Also several brands of heretics according to Irenaeus

My guess -- only a guess! -- is that this was an Old Latin reading
that somehow propagated into various other texts. Note that that
somewhat dubious citation from Irenaeus is the only Greek support.

Bob Waltz
[email-masked]

"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."