Subject: Re: number of NT MSS.

From: [email-masked] (William L. Petersen)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:54:08 +0100

Re Ron Minton's query about the precise number of NT MSS:

I doubt if anyone knows the exact number, for it is constantly changing.

For example, among the Oxyrhynchus papyri, about 10 small fragments have
just been identified as perserving parts of the gospels (all are *small*
and will be released in October, as I recall [they were viewed and
discussed in the textual criticism seminar of the SNTS, meeting in
Birmingham in August]).  While it may be that one or two of these papryi
belong to known (and, therefore, numbered) papyri, some appear to be
"new"--or are at least tought to "stand on their own" (as opposed to being
parts of another papyrus).

Further, research often is known only to those working on the find (e.g.,
the editor of these Oxyrhynchus fragments knew of them, as did selected
experts he consulted in the UK), until it is announced.  Therefore, even if
one could stipulate the number *publicly* known at noon today, that number
would be inaccurate, for somewhere in the world, someone is probably
working on preparing an edition of fragments or manuscripts which will
change this number.

Additionally, the number changes as MSS are reconsidered:  an example given
me by Tjitze Baarda is MS 372, which Hatch dates to the XV or XVI cent.  It
may well be, however, that MS 372 is actually a *manuscript* copy of a
*printed edition*--that is, a *BOOK*--of the gospels, perhaps one of the
early editions of Erasmus.  Variant readings suggest this, as does
Gregory's remark that it "sieht wie ein gedrucktes Buch aus."  The question
then arises:  Is this a "manuscript" of the NT?  Or is it simply, from a
text-critical perspective, worthless, with no textual tradition behind it
at all, but simply a copy by a scribe from a *printed* edition?  Depending
on how one decides this matter, the number of NT MSS will be one MS greater
or lesser.

It is because of this  sort of constant discovery--and sometimes
reappraisal (these two papryi, now numbered separately, are actully from
the same MS;  this is not a MS from antiquity, but a copy from a printed
edition)--that fixing the *exact* number of witnesses is impossible.

Having said this, I cannot imagine what possible value there could be to
knowing (or wanting to know) the *exact* number of extant NT MSS...

--Petersen, Penn State University,
Netherlands Institute for Advanced Studies

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From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:13:22 -0500 (CDT)

>I doubt if anyone knows the exact number, for it is constantly changing.

[ etc. ]

While I agree with everything Petersen says (imagine that!),
it strikes me that this is the sort of information that ought
without any question to be on-line. 25 years between editions of
the _Liste_ is too much, and even the supplements (if you can
find them) are too widely spaced. If this information were
on-line, the catalog could be updated every time a new number
is assigned.

Of course this would mean that the list would be modified more
often (as, e.g., fragments are discovered to belong to the same
manuscript), but that's a small price to pay.

Is there any way we can start a campaign for this?

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

                        Robert B. Waltz
                     [email-masked]

Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
(A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)

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From: Maurice Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:54:31 -0400 (EDT)

> Further, research often is known only to those working on the find. 
> Somewhere in the world, someone is probably

I might add to this that even with non-fragmentary MSS there still are
copies known to exist which have not yet been catalogued with a
Gregory-Aland number. 

When I visited the Scriptorium in Grand Haven, Michigan, last spring to
view the Van Kampen collection, I was shown two or three 12th-14th century
copies of the four gospels which they said had not yet been catalogued at
Muenster, and, indeed, they suggested that Muenster might not even be
aware of their existence (perhaps someone from Muenster can correct me on
that point).

_________________________________________________________________________
Maurice A. Robinson, Ph.D.           Professor of Greek and New Testament
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary     Wake Forest, North Carolina
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