Subject: Re: Plural of "apparatus" (Was:tc-list Re: Latin nouns)

From: "DC PARKER" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:56:24 GMT

Robert Waltz wrote

> OK, I checked my dictionary, and it's true -- the plural of "apparatus"
> is "apparatus" or (gack!) "apparatuses." (Don't blame me for that last....)
> But I, at least, was taught that, in English, the proper plural of
> all nouns ending in -us was -i. So how did this mess arise? And how
> do we settle which nouns fall into which class without constantly
> referring to the dictionary?

It isn't a mess.  It's Latin.  Apparatus is a 4th declension noun in -u.  Nouns 
with gen. sg. and nom. pl. in -i are 2nd declension nouns in -o, like 
annus, anni.

DC PARKER
DEPT OF THEOLOGY
UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM
TEL. 0121-414 3613
FAX  0121-414 6866
E-MAIL [email-masked]

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From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:36:27 -0500 (CDT)

Sorry to drag this out, but....

>with gen. sg. and nom. pl. in -i are 2nd declension nouns in -o, like 

Yes, but what does one do in the perhaps slightly hypothetical case
that one is not fluent in Latin? I have Latin dictionaries that I can
look things up in (I've never managed to memorize grammatical genders --
not in German, not in Greek, and not in Latin). But is there any sort
of rule that one can teach those who have no Latin at all, other than
"Look it up"?

Bob Waltz
[email-masked]

"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

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From: "Stephen C. Carlson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:47:55

>of rule that one can teach those who have no Latin at all, other than

There is no royal road to Latin -- and no substitute for looking things
up.  However, the small class of 4th declension nouns (a.k.a. "u"-
declension) contains many nouns derived from the stem of the perfect
participle.  APPARATUS is one of those words, coming from the verb 
APPARO, -ARE, "to prepare, get ready, provide."  So all you need to do
is identify whether the particular Latin noun in question could possibly
be based on the perfect participle. ;-)

In the perhaps slightly hypothetical case that one is not fluent in Latin,
a heuristic I can suggest is: if the noun ends in "-tus" or "-sus", then
you should look up the plural in the dictionary.

Stephen Carlson
--
Stephen C. Carlson                   : Poetry speaks of aspirations,
[email-masked]              : and songs chant the words.
http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/ :               -- Shujing 2.35

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From: Matthew Johnson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:06:53 -0700 (PDT)

> >with gen. sg. and nom. pl. in -i are 2nd declension nouns in -o, like 

Isn't this getting off the topic for this list?  I can understand a
little confusion over this topic, especially when in this list people
sometimes use Latin words according to Latin rules, but at other times
according to English rules.

So hoping to have the last word (ha! Fat chance of that!) I propose the
following for this list:
   1) When using the English word "apparatus" (obviously borrowed from
   Latin), follow the English rule, i.e., look it up in the dictionary
   if you don't know whether the plural is "apparatus", "apparatuses"
   or "apparati".

   2) When using the Latin word "apparatus", take a hint from pre-Augustan
   orthography: since we cannot write the macron in net-ascii, spell it
   "apparatus" when singular, "apparatuus" when plural if the
   difference has textual signifigance.

   3) Follow the same rule for other 4th declension words.

Matthew Johnson
Waiting for the blessed hope and the appearance of the glory of our 
great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (Ti 2:13).