From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 06:11:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA16832; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:11:07 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:17:36 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: tc-list Pasor and NT editions Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1432 This is a re-transmission of a message I sent to the list yesterday; my copy of it, from the list-server at Emory was truncated after the quotation from Lincoln's original post--thus eliminating the reason for my post. The gremlins are at it again . --Petersen ---------------------- Post which may have been truncated follows-----------= - Thanks to G. Lincoln for supplying the two references from the OCLC re Pasor= : >Below are two records that are cataloged as if they include a Greek New >Testament. The bibliographic information is in tags 245 and 260. The OCLC >numbers are included if you desired to have your librarians track them >down. > >OCLC is a much richer source to search because it includes nearly 20,000 >libraries from every continent except Antartica. For manuscripts and >incunabula it may be necessary to search the European libraries >individually as already posted becuase they are only recently adding their >records to the OCLC database. > >OCLC: 37160226 > >=F6 5 130 0 Bible. =B7p N.T. =B7l Greek. =B7f 1674. Y >=F6 6 245 10 E Kain=DCe Diath=DCek=DCe. Novum testamentum. Huic= editioni omnia >difficiliorum vocabulorum themata, quae in Georgii Pasoris Lexico >grammati=DDce >resolvuntur, in margine apposuit Carolus Hoole, in eorum scilicet gratiam, >qui >prima graecae linguae tyrocinia faciunt... Y >=F6 7 260 Londini, =B7b Excudebat Andr. Clark, pro Sam. Mearne, Joan= From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 10:14:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA17337; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:14:59 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:21:32 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: tc-list Gremlins on the 'net and Georg Pasor Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1673 I give up: there must be some error in my file, for it again truncated the post, after my quotation of Lincoln's message. Here (I hope) is what should have followed after Lincoln's two records from the OCLC catagloue. (Apologies to all for these partial posts...). --Petersen. ------------ Remainder of post, twice lost in transmission ------------ One note, however, neither of these titles (the one's in Lincoln's post) appears to be (1) a bilingual edition of the NT (Greek & Latin), and (2) neither appears to be by Pasor. If one reads the Latin, the title indicates that they are (apparently anonymous) editions of the *Greek* New Testament, "all" of whose "difficult" vocabulary/grammar was defined/parsed in the margin *on the basis of* Pasor's Greek-Latin lexicon (whose title was in my last post) by a certain "Karl Hoole." In essence, Hoole apparently took an edition of the Gk NT, and "glossed" its margins with appropriate information from Pasor's lexicon and Pasor's grammar. But whose edition of the NT this is, is not stated. The dates (1653 and 1674) suggest that whoever did the edition(s), it was not Pasor, for he died in 1638. Hoole may be the editor, or it may have been some earlier edition. This new information, intersting as it is, has not unearthed a *bilingual* edition (or *any* edition) of the NT *by* Pasor. Once again, to the best I have been able to determine, Pasor did *not* publish a bilingual edition of the NT. BTW, what is "OCLC" (I presume, "Online Catalogue, Library of Congress"?)? Is it on the Web? If so, what is its address? TIA. --Petersen, Penn State University, Netherlands Institute for Advanced Study. From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 12:20:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA17698; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:20:24 -0500 X-Sender: waltzmn@popmail.skypoint.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:16:25 -0600 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: "Robert B. Waltz" Subject: Special Characters (Was: Re: tc-list Gremlins on the 'net and Georg Pasor) Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1534 On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) wrote: >I give up: there must be some error in my file, for it again truncated the >post, after my quotation of Lincoln's message. Here (I hope) is what >should have followed after Lincoln's two records from the OCLC catagloue. >(Apologies to all for these partial posts...). I think I can hazard a guess as to the cause of the problems. It appeared, based on the posts as they appeared on my machine, that they used some special characters not in the standard ASCII set. (E.g. I saw some U-umlauts in the posts as they appeared on my machine, though they would likely have shown up as something else on a PC or UNIX machine that uses a different encoding set.) Depending on the system, such special characters may be interpreted as an "end of message" symbol. The result: A truncated message. This isn't common, but it can happen. And scrambled messages *are* common. The solution is to stop using the special characters. (They won't show up the same way on other people's machines anyway, so there isn't much point in using them.) The "safe" characters are the letters A-Z, a-z, the numbers 0-9, the space, and the standard punctuation characters. Anything you have to access in a special way -- e.g. by using ALT or CONTROL or OPTION keys, or even curly quotation marks, is not standard ASCII, and can cause problems. I hope this helps. Bob Waltz waltzmn@skypoint.com "The one thing we learn from history -- is that no one ever learns from history." From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 13:10:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA17956; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:10:54 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:17:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199802011817.NAA13670@server1.netpath.net> X-Sender: rlmullen@server1.netpath.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: "Roderic L. Mullen" Subject: Re: tc-list Gremlins on the 'net and Georg Pasor Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 2179 >From my long-ago days as intern in the reference department at Perkins Library at Duke, I think OCLC originally meant "Ohio College Library Catalogue" which then expanded to become something like "Online Catalogue of Library Collections" designed to be an electronic counterpart to the Library of Congress's National Union Catalogue. It was then, and I think still is, a system used primarily for interlibrary loans. --Rod Mullen At 04:21 PM 2/1/98 +0200, you wrote: >I give up: there must be some error in my file, for it again truncated the >post, after my quotation of Lincoln's message. Here (I hope) is what >should have followed after Lincoln's two records from the OCLC catagloue. >(Apologies to all for these partial posts...). > >--Petersen. > >------------ Remainder of post, twice lost in transmission ------------ > >One note, however, neither of these titles (the one's in Lincoln's post) >appears to be (1) a bilingual edition of the NT (Greek & Latin), and (2) >neither appears to be by Pasor. If one reads the Latin, the title >indicates that they are (apparently anonymous) editions of the *Greek* New >Testament, "all" of whose "difficult" vocabulary/grammar was defined/parsed >in the margin *on the basis of* Pasor's Greek-Latin lexicon (whose title >was in my last post) by a certain "Karl Hoole." In essence, Hoole >apparently took an edition of the Gk NT, and "glossed" its margins with >appropriate information from Pasor's lexicon and Pasor's grammar. But >whose edition of the NT this is, is not stated. The dates (1653 and 1674) >suggest that whoever did the edition(s), it was not Pasor, for he died in >1638. Hoole may be the editor, or it may have been some earlier edition. > >This new information, intersting as it is, has not unearthed a *bilingual* >edition (or *any* edition) of the NT *by* Pasor. Once again, to the best I >have been able to determine, Pasor did *not* publish a bilingual edition of >the NT. > >BTW, what is "OCLC" (I presume, "Online Catalogue, Library of Congress"?)? >Is it on the Web? If so, what is its address? TIA. > >--Petersen, Penn State University, >Netherlands Institute for Advanced Study. > > From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 13:14:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA17998; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:14:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:21:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199802011821.NAA13876@server1.netpath.net> X-Sender: rlmullen@server1.netpath.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: "Roderic L. Mullen" Subject: Re: tc-list Gremlins on the 'net and Georg Pasor Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 2017 OCLC again. There is, I have recently discovered, something called Worldcat, which works similarly to OCLC and lists books held in various libraries. It can probably be found if you have direct access to a large college or university online catalogue. --Rod Mullen At 04:21 PM 2/1/98 +0200, you wrote: >I give up: there must be some error in my file, for it again truncated the >post, after my quotation of Lincoln's message. Here (I hope) is what >should have followed after Lincoln's two records from the OCLC catagloue. >(Apologies to all for these partial posts...). > >--Petersen. > >------------ Remainder of post, twice lost in transmission ------------ > >One note, however, neither of these titles (the one's in Lincoln's post) >appears to be (1) a bilingual edition of the NT (Greek & Latin), and (2) >neither appears to be by Pasor. If one reads the Latin, the title >indicates that they are (apparently anonymous) editions of the *Greek* New >Testament, "all" of whose "difficult" vocabulary/grammar was defined/parsed >in the margin *on the basis of* Pasor's Greek-Latin lexicon (whose title >was in my last post) by a certain "Karl Hoole." In essence, Hoole >apparently took an edition of the Gk NT, and "glossed" its margins with >appropriate information from Pasor's lexicon and Pasor's grammar. But >whose edition of the NT this is, is not stated. The dates (1653 and 1674) >suggest that whoever did the edition(s), it was not Pasor, for he died in >1638. Hoole may be the editor, or it may have been some earlier edition. > >This new information, intersting as it is, has not unearthed a *bilingual* >edition (or *any* edition) of the NT *by* Pasor. Once again, to the best I >have been able to determine, Pasor did *not* publish a bilingual edition of >the NT. > >BTW, what is "OCLC" (I presume, "Online Catalogue, Library of Congress"?)? >Is it on the Web? If so, what is its address? TIA. > >--Petersen, Penn State University, >Netherlands Institute for Advanced Study. > > From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 14:14:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA18226; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:14:47 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:21:21 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: tc-list Gremlins and OCLC Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1488 Two brief items: Thanks to those who offered suggestions as to the Gremlins. As to the problem, I figured a bit differently, noting that the odd/garbled characters in Lincoln's "paste" from the OCLC (accents, umlauts, etc.) came through OK, all three times (in his original post, and my two truncated replies), but my new text (without any special characters), which followed his "paste" from OCLC, was lost. I wonder if there is some hidden character(s) at the end of his paste from OCLC that aborts transmission, for that is where my message was cut off in both of my replies--but not, N.B., when Lincoln sent it out originally, where his signature followed the "paste." (Software engineers take note....) On OCLC: I'm still curious what this is. If Lincoln is out there, I'd appreciate a clarification. Rod, are you sure this is the Ohio system, augmented? At Penn State, we have access to "RLIN" (the acronym is something like "Research Libraries Interlibrary Network"), which is what our Interlibrary Loan Dep't uses. It has a very broad sweep (only American libraries, however, but all the big ones), but its format is clearly different from that of OCLC. It seems odd (and a waste of resources) to maintain two, essentially identical, catalogues (OCLC, RLIN, and whatever else may be out there [Worldcat, Library of Congress, etc.]). Is OCLC on the web and, if so, what is its address? TIA. --Petersen, Penn State Univ., Netherlands Institute of Advanced Studies. From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 16:16:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA18758; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:16:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199802012116.NAA25233@mail-01.telis.org> Subject: Re: tc-list OCLC and Pasor Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 13:22:30 -0800 x-sender: sohncom@mail-01.telis.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Dexter Garnier To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 498 On 2/1/98 10:21 AM William L. Petersen wrote: >On OCLC: I'm still curious what this is. Try: http://www.oclc.org/oclc/menu/home1.htm Also regarding Pasor, I saw this title recently for sale by a Netherlands bookseller: PASOR, G.: Manuale Graecarum vocum N.Testamenti. ; Lugd.Bat., Elzevir,1640. 12mo. With engr.title. Old bds. {strq: BIBLIA Antiquity LatinText GreekOrg Theology OLD}. Book: K2-71-20. I don't know anything about it. Perhaps W. Petersen can help. Regards, Dexter Garnier From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 16:20:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA18797; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:20:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:27:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199802012127.QAA21874@server1.netpath.net> X-Sender: rlmullen@server1.netpath.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: "Roderic L. Mullen" Subject: Re: tc-list Gremlins and OCLC Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1900 To the best of my knowledge, OCLC is a closed system independent of the web. I'd agree that there seems to be a tremendous duplication of effort, but then many of the individual library catalogues online look like custom designs anyway. For instance, does it make sense to have catalog terminals at UVA set up to require a campus i.d.? --Rod At 08:21 PM 2/1/98 +0200, you wrote: >Two brief items: > >Thanks to those who offered suggestions as to the Gremlins. As to the >problem, I figured a bit differently, noting that the odd/garbled >characters in Lincoln's "paste" from the OCLC (accents, umlauts, etc.) came >through OK, all three times (in his original post, and my two truncated >replies), but my new text (without any special characters), which followed >his "paste" from OCLC, was lost. I wonder if there is some hidden >character(s) at the end of his paste from OCLC that aborts transmission, >for that is where my message was cut off in both of my replies--but not, >N.B., when Lincoln sent it out originally, where his signature followed the >"paste." (Software engineers take note....) > >On OCLC: I'm still curious what this is. If Lincoln is out there, I'd >appreciate a clarification. Rod, are you sure this is the Ohio system, >augmented? At Penn State, we have access to "RLIN" (the acronym is >something like "Research Libraries Interlibrary Network"), which is what >our Interlibrary Loan Dep't uses. It has a very broad sweep (only American >libraries, however, but all the big ones), but its format is clearly >different from that of OCLC. It seems odd (and a waste of resources) to >maintain two, essentially identical, catalogues (OCLC, RLIN, and whatever >else may be out there [Worldcat, Library of Congress, etc.]). Is OCLC on >the web and, if so, what is its address? TIA. > >--Petersen, Penn State Univ., >Netherlands Institute of Advanced Studies. > > From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 1 22:11:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA19643; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:11:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199802020317.WAA07407@erebus.rutgers.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard D. Weis" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:21:18 +0000 Subject: Re: tc-list Gremlins and OCLC Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.22) Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1857 Dear Colleagues, Some hazy memories from the archives in response to William Petersen's comments as follows: > On OCLC: I'm still curious what this is. If Lincoln is out there, I'd > appreciate a clarification. Rod, are you sure this is the Ohio system, > augmented? At Penn State, we have access to "RLIN" (the acronym is > something like "Research Libraries Interlibrary Network"), which is what > our Interlibrary Loan Dep't uses. It has a very broad sweep (only American > libraries, however, but all the big ones), but its format is clearly > different from that of OCLC. It seems odd (and a waste of resources) to > maintain two, essentially identical, catalogues (OCLC, RLIN, and whatever > else may be out there [Worldcat, Library of Congress, etc.]). Is OCLC on > the web and, if so, what is its address? TIA. Both OCLC and RLIN are at least twenty years old because I first met them as a grad student at that time. If memory serves, both were supported on central mainframes that one dialed into from dedicated terminals. RLIN started off with an emphasis on large research libraries (hence the name), and thus included only collections of a certain size and depth. I had the impression that OCLC got started as a comparable catalog and ILL service for everybody else. So originally these were parallel, but not overlapping, networks. As to their current relationship, I couldn't say. Regards, Richard Weis ******************************************************************************* Richard D. Weis rweis@rci.rutgers.edu New Brunswick Theological Seminary phone: 1-732-246-5613 17 Seminary Place FAX: 1-732-249-5412 New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1196 USA ******************************************************************************* From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 03:00:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id DAA20215; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:00:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:00:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199802020800.DAA20195@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu> From: Jimmy Adair (tc-list-owner) Subject: tc-list Quarterly Reminder Content-Type: text Apparently-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 6863 ****************************************************************************** General Information about the List ****************************************************************************** tc-list: a discussion list of biblical textual criticism This list is loosely associated with the new electronic journal _TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism_, and it is intended for a discussion of any matters relating to biblical textual criticism, broadly defined. The rationale for the creation of the TC journal is given below. It is hoped that subscribers to the tc-list will reflect on and respond to material from articles in TC, will deal with issues that arise in the context of text-critical study in the community of biblical scholars at large, and will use the list to suggest new ideas and methodologies. Notes on any aspect of the textual criticism of the Jewish and Christian scriptures (including extracanonical and related literature) are welcome, and threads that transcend the traditional boundary between textual criticism of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament and New Testament textual criticism are especially encouraged. We would also like to see threads that discuss the relationship between textual criticism and other disciplines. This list is an unmoderated list, and anyone who is a subscriber to the list may contribute. Conventional netiquette should be followed by all contributors to the list. The following points in particular should be kept in mind. (1) Discussion of topics other than textual criticism (or other topics likely to be of interest to members of the list) should be avoided. (2) Scholarly discussion can at times be somewhat heated, but civility should always prevail. (3) Contributors to the list should always sign their messages with their names (not just e-mail addresses). Additional information, such as institutional affiliation, might also be of interest to others on the list. (4) When responding to a message on the list, quote only that portion of the message that you are responding to, or enough of the message to remind readers of the context of the discussion. In many cases it is not necessary to quote the entire message. Archives of tc-list are automatically maintained, and they may be accessed by sending a message like the following to majordomo@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu: get tc-list tc-list.yymm where yy is a 2-digit year and mm is a 2-digit month (e.g., tc-list.9604 for April 1996). The first month archived is November 1995 (tc-list.9511). List archives may also be accessed on the Web at http://purl.org/TC/archives/tc-list/tc-list.html. TC messages since 28 Feb 1997 are also archived by Reference.COM at http://www.reference.com. ****************************************************************************** Subscribing, Unsubscribing, and Sending Messages to the List ****************************************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, send the appropriate message to majordomo@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (_not_ to the list itself): subscribe tc-list [your e-mail address] unsubscribe tc-list [your e-mail address] The e-mail address is optional, since subscription will default to the address you are sending from. You may also subscribe to this list in digest form (i.e., messages bundled and sent out a few times per week) by sending this message to majordomo@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu: subscribe tc-list-digest [your e-mail address] If you subscribe to the digest, be sure to unsubscribe from the list so you won't receive everything twice. To send a message to the list for all to read, send your message to tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu. Don't send to tc-list-digest, even if you're subscribed to the digest. Just send to tc-list. If you do not want to receive messages for a while (e.g., you're going on vacation or will be away from your computer for an extended time), please unsubscribe from the list. There is no "vacation" command on this list. When you want to start receiving messages again, simply subscribe to the list again. ***************************************************************************** TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism ***************************************************************************** One of the benefits of increasingly widespread Internet access is the ease with which scholars in a particular field can communicate with one another. Although the sciences have dominated the electronic journal field up until this point, several journals in the humanities are now available online. TC follows in the (brief) tradition of the Journal of Buddhist Ethics, the International Journal of Tantric Studies, and the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies. As far as we are aware, TC is the first Web journal in the area of biblical studies. Why "biblical" textual criticism (rather than t-c of the NT or the Hebrew Bible/OT)? It is time for textual critics in the two camps to communicate more with one another. Textual critics in one field can only benefit by hearing what those in the other field have to say. The journal will accept papers dealing with any aspect of textual criticism of the OT/Hebrew Bible or NT, and it especially encourages "crossover" papers that deal with both areas. Papers dealing either with specific cruxes or with larger issues (methodology, use of versional evidence, etc.) are welcome. Brief notes or full-length articles are equally acceptable. Why an electronic journal? The fact of the matter is that printing a journal costs a lot of money (especially with recent increases in paper prices). In addition, it is debatable whether the field of textual criticism could generate a large enough base to support a paper journal. There are technical difficulties with displaying non-Latin characters that will have to be addressed, but some of these difficulties have already been overcome. With an electronic journal, scholars and students around the world can have free access to one or another form of the journal, either via the World Wide Web, FTP, or e-mail. TC is now in its second year of operation, and we are looking for articles. Please submit your articles in electronic form to: Jimmy Adair Scholars Press P.O. Box 15399 Atlanta, GA 30333-0399 USA You are also welcome to send articles via e-mail to jadair@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu, or you may upload your articles directly to our FTP site at ftp://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu/uploads/TC. TC has a home page on TELA, the Scholars Press World Wide Web site (http://purl.org/TC), and interested parties can look at this page for announcements. We look forward to your participation in TC and tc-list! The list-owner of tc-list is Jimmy Adair (jadair@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu). From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 05:16:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id FAA20622; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:16:29 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:23:04 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: tc-list OCLC Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 175 Thanks to the various respondents re OCLC, esp. the web address. I'll have to check it out. --Petersen, Penn State University, Netherlands Institute for Advanced Studies. From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 07:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA20886; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:53:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:00:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Johnson Subject: Re: tc-list History of transmission To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 4116 Ulrich Schmiud wrote: Matthew Johnson wrote: >>Actually, the Vulgate has surprising links with what could be the >>original text. This is because the Vulgate didn't really take over as >>the standard until several centuries after it was written. In the >>meantime, people continued to copy the Old Latin version, even mixing >>it with the Vulgate. >This goes too fast for me to make sense. Really? I can't see why, unless you are trying very hard to read between the lines and see some claim I did not make. > Besides, what do you mean by > several centuries? There is nothing unclear here. Several centuries IS the time between that when Jerome finished his work on the Vulgate (whether he really did do only the OT and Gospels or not) and the time it finally took over as the official text of the Roman Church. It was not until Trent that Pope and Council proclaimed it official, and not until Bacon's time that he [Roger Bacon] could get away with saying that Jerome's Vulgate was the true text of the church, which must not be tampered with. > When consulting _B. Fischer, Die Lateinischen Evangelien >bis zum 10. Jahrhundert (4 vols.), 1988-1991_ I find 21 Mss counted among >the Old Latin type(s), while around 430 are counted among the Vg Mss. But what does this really mean? These numbers tell us next to nothing about which text was predominant when. Nor do these numbers tell us anything about Old Latin readings surviving in Vulgate manuscripts, nor about Old Latin manuscripts harmonized to the Vulgate. Both phenomena were common enough. >Though it is true that virtually every Vg Ms has some sort of Old Latin >tincture, nevertheless your statement seems to be too unsubtle. BTW-- We >know virtually nothing about the later history of the Vulgate from the 10th >to the 15th centuries. This may be true, but it would have little bearing on the application of the knowledge of the history of the Vulgate text to understanding the Old Latin & therefore the Western text, since for this we are by far more concerned with the Vulgate in an earlier period, for which we know the history better. >Part of the NT Vulgate, for example the Pauline Epistles, most likely >wasn't even the work of Jerome. Now how _would_ you tell the difference between this claim and the scenario I described, that: >>Besides, much of the New Testament, even in Jerome's Vulgate, was >>copied almost unmodified from the Old Latin. Perhaps the Pope was >>putting pressure on Jerome to finish. In either case, the Vulgate NT outside the Gospels remains mostly Old Latin. So now it is my turn to ask you: what is the point _you_ are trying to make? The point I am trying to make is not that subtle or mysterious. It is that the previous poster seems to be dismissing the Vulgate text as irrelevant to finding original readings. But because of the close relation between the Old Latin and the Western text, this dismissal is uncalled for. But I am not arguing for unique original readings in the Vulgate. In fact, I am not aware of any (although I would not be surprised if a very small handful of such existed). What I am arguing for is its relevance to the history of the text, and to the process of establishing which reading best explains the others. Since in a slightly earlier post you referred to Metzger's handling of the longer ending of Mark, it seems appropriate to remind you that Metzger gave a copule examples of this very process (using the Old Latin) in handling this very passage, as well as in handling Luke's "Glory to God in the highest...". In both cases, the absence of one variant in the Old Latin serves as a "tie-breaker", so that external evidence alone may establish which reading is earlier. He also points out that from the Vulgate (and Jerome's comments on his translation process), we knew that the longer ending of Mark was present in the Greek manuscript tradition, even though no such manuscript was catalogued until W was discovered. Matthew Johnson Waiting for the blessed hope and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (Ti 2:13). From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 09:48:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA21798; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:48:49 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Glen Thompson" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:55:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: tc-list History of transmission X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Glen Thompson" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-Id: <19980202085619.3be2145c.in@mailhost.mlc-wels.edu> Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1833 > Matthew Johnson wrote: > There is nothing unclear here. Several centuries IS the time between > that when Jerome finished his work on the Vulgate (whether he really > did do only the OT and Gospels or not) and the time it finally took > over as the official text of the Roman Church. It was not until Trent > that Pope and Council proclaimed it official, and not until Bacon's > time that he [Roger Bacon] could get away with saying that Jerome's > Vulgate was the true text of the church, which must not be tampered > with. The question, as I see it, is not when the Vulgate became the "official" text of the Roman church, but when it became the predominant text among Latin-using Christians. While Old Latin influences certainly survived for several centuries, the Vulgate seems to have become the predominant text long before Bacon or Trent. > >>Besides, much of the New Testament, even in Jerome's Vulgate, was > >>copied almost unmodified from the Old Latin. Perhaps the Pope was > >>putting pressure on Jerome to finish. Damasus of Rome was a friend of Jerome and he was the pope who (according to Jerome) asked or suggested that he work on a new translation. Damasus died shortly after that request was made and his successor, Siricius, was anything but friendly to Jerome, one cause for the latter's departure from the capital and journey to the East. Thus I doubt whether Siuricius or his successors would try or succeed in influencing what Jerome did. On the other hand, one need only look at Jerome's bibilical commentaries to see that he was, for the most part, a collector and editor rather than an original scholar. With this in mind, one might argue that at least in some sections of the Vulgate he decided to edit from previoius versions rather than translate anew. Glen L. Thompson From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 10:04:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA21979; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:04:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:09:28 -0500 From: "Harold P. Scanlin" Subject: tc-list Re: OCLC and ARLIN To: TC-LIST Message-ID: <199802021010_MC2-3193-69C6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 2456 Petersen asked about OCLC and (A)RLIN: > On OCLC: I'm still curious what this is. If Lincoln is out there, I'd= > appreciate a clarification. Rod, are you sure this is the Ohio system= , > augmented? At Penn State, we have access to "RLIN" (the acronym is > something like "Research Libraries Interlibrary Network"), which is wha= t > our Interlibrary Loan Dep't uses. It has a very broad sweep (only American > libraries, however, but all the big ones), but its format is clearly > different from that of OCLC. It seems odd (and a waste of resources) t= o > maintain two, essentially identical, catalogues (OCLC, RLIN, and whatev= er > else may be out there [Worldcat, Library of Congress, etc.]). Is OCLC = on > the web and, if so, what OCLC (=3D Online Computer Library Center; It used to be "Ohio Consortium = =2E . =2E ," or something like that before it became a global service for onlin= e cataloging) provides online cataloging essentially following Library of Congress and MARC(2) format. It also offers ILL services. It includes L= C records and seems to offer quick access to CIP (Cataloging in Publication= ) data from both US and other countries. OCLC is a service which has been available to subscribing libraries, although I know they have been workin= g on a public access system, available for a fee on the Internet. Their website should provide further information. = (A)RLIN offers more extensive bibliographic annotation, especially useful= for earlier works and those for which full bibliographic description is important. In the case of Pasor, ARLIN records, if they exist, would be particularly useful. Unfortunately our ABS Library is not at present a member of the RLIN system. My (educated) guess is that OCLC has more records than ARLIN. Due to extensive renovations at Bible House here in NY, the ABS library i= s not currently accessible, so I am not able to see if ABS has the NT's. I= t should be open again in March, so if anyone wants me to check later, let = me know offline. Meanwhile, the published catalog of the Landesbibliothek i= n Stuttgart would be quite helpful if they hold any of the testaments which= purport to refer to Pasor. I, too, doubt if Pasor actually contributed editorially to the NT's in question, but the editions probably only take note of Pasor's lexicographical work. Harold P. Scanlin United Bible Societies 1865 Broadway New York, NY 10023 scanlin@compuserve.com From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 10:56:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA22382; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:56:03 -0500 Message-ID: <2DBDBD3301A9B4AA@mail.lbc.edu> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:03:00 -0500 From: "GLINCOLN @ LBC * GLINCOLN" Organization: Lancaster Bible College To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: RE: tc-list Gremlins and OCLC Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.30A MHS/SMF to SMTP Gateway Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 2003 The "O" in OCLC originally did refer to Ohio but after several name changes, including O=Online, they are back to only the acronym. The RLIN network does duplicate and overlap OCLC to some extent. Most if not all the research libraries that belong to RLIN are also a member of OCLC. The groups were originally created for shared cataloging (the first library that cataloged a book entered the record for the other libraries to use). OCLC member RLIN libraries should be placing the record of their holdings onto OCLC as they catalog. All Library of Congress (and several other national library) records are automatically loaded onto OCLC. It is a vast union catalog of the holdings of all the member libraries in one place. Its reason for being is to eliminate as much as possible the duplication of effort and lower the costs of library operation. The Worldcat is another name for the union database used by OCLC under their FirstSearch service designed for public access. It is available at most college and university libraries for searching. The Web site is WWW.OCLC.ORG but you would need a password. I did turn in a suggestion that they create individual accounts for searching but have not heard that they have it available. If more individuals would send in the suggestion they might recognize the need. In regard to the pasting of the bibliographic records, it is possible that there could have been a special character. There is a special mapping for the ALA character set in order to transliterate any script into the Latin alphabet and a combination from it may have caused a problem. I apologize for any problems with the pasting of the bibliographic records. Gerald E. Lincoln ***************************** Library Director Voice (717) 560-8250 Ext. 362 Lancaster Bible College FAX (717) 560-8213 901 Eden Rd. e-mail glincoln@lbc.edu Lancaster, PA 17601 ***************************** From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 2 19:58:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA26568; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:58:32 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Johnson Subject: Re: tc-list t-c C. P. Thiede To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1504 On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Nichael Lynn Cramer wrote: [snip] > >>Also, are their any places on the Web where the pros and cons of this > >>contention are discussed/debated? [snip] > > I second all of Jim's message above. In addition, an good on-line source > is Sigrid Petersen's message which was posted to the Ioudaios list: > > http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~petersig/theide2.txt > > This, too, thoroughly rebutts Thiede's conjectures. > To which I reply: This is getting further and further off the topic of Textual Criticism. What is worse, I see that you did not even answer the question. Instead you expose your own ideological bias by your subtle replacement of the question with a different question. For the question was "do you know of an on-line source discussing the _pros and cons_? But you answered with a site that is not only already four years out-of-date, but is conspicuously purely against Thiede's claim. So this site has no claim to be an on-line source discussing the pros and cons. Thiede's claim certainly has its problems, but a site that so reeks of its own ideological and religious bias cannot have a serious claim to have "thoroughly debunked" it. If you want a thorough analysis of the ideological and religious bias of that site, contact me off the list, since this is straying too far from the purpose of this list. Matthew Johnson Waiting for the blessed hope and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (Ti 2:13). From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Tue Feb 3 06:08:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA28260; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:08:52 -0500 X-Sender: schmid@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:15:51 +0100 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: schmiul@nias.knaw.nl (U. Schmid) Subject: Re: tc-list History of transmission Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 7829 On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Matthew Johnson wrote: >Ulrich Schmiud wrote: > Matthew Johnson wrote: >>>Actually, the Vulgate has surprising links with what could be the >>>original text. This is because the Vulgate didn't really take over as >>>the standard until several centuries after it was written. In the >>>meantime, people continued to copy the Old Latin version, even mixing >>>it with the Vulgate. > >>This goes too fast for me to make sense. > >Really? I can't see why, unless you are trying very hard to >read between the lines and see some claim I did not make. Your statement above consists of three sentences that obviously interrelate and are intended to make a point. From my perspective, however, there seem to lay a lot of implicite arguments behind the three sentences in order to make a point. And I simply was not sure, whether I got them all. E.g., why are there *surprising* links between the Vulgate and the *original text*? Are you talking about the *original text* of the Latin version or the Greek? Why can the non-take-over of the Vulgate as a standard text be considered as a (the?) *reason* for the *surprising* links? Moreover, the time frame *several centuries* was not clear to me? Therefore, I asked the following question: >> Besides, what do you mean by >> several centuries? > >There is nothing unclear here. Several centuries IS the time between >that when Jerome finished his work on the Vulgate (whether he really >did do only the OT and Gospels or not) and the time it finally took >over as the official text of the Roman Church. It was not until Trent >that Pope and Council proclaimed it official, and not until Bacon's >time that he [Roger Bacon] could get away with saying that Jerome's >Vulgate was the true text of the church, which must not be tampered >with. To which Glen Thompson already replied: "The question, as I see it, is not when the Vulgate became the "official" text of the Roman church, but when it became the predominant text among Latin-using Christians. While Old Latin influences certainly survived for several centuries, the Vulgate seems to have become the predominant text long before Bacon or Trent." [Schmid] >> When consulting _B. Fischer, Die Lateinischen Evangelien >>bis zum 10. Jahrhundert (4 vols.), 1988-1991_ I find 21 Mss counted among >>the Old Latin type(s), while around 430 are counted among the Vg Mss. > >But what does this really mean? These numbers tell us next to nothing >about which text was predominant when. Nor do these numbers tell us >anything about Old Latin readings surviving in Vulgate manuscripts, >nor about Old Latin manuscripts harmonized to the Vulgate. Both >phenomena were common enough. There certainly is a limited number of cases for which it is hard to decide whether we are actually dealing with Old Latin texts being "vulgatized" (i.e., adapted to a dominant Vulgate text) or Vulgate texts being influenced by Old Latin texts. Yet I think the general figures do indeed tell us something. Though occasionally Old Latin texts had been copied in later times - just as old, non-Byzantine texts had been copied in the greek minuscule times -, the vast majority of Latin Mss from the 5th to 9th/10th centuries seem to basically belong to the Vulgate type. Thus the latter phenomenon seems to tell us something about the predominant text for most every place of Ms production despite a much later "official" (church council) reception of this text. [Schmid] >>Though it is true that virtually every Vg Ms has some sort of Old Latin >>tincture, nevertheless your statement seems to be too unsubtle. BTW-- We >>know virtually nothing about the later history of the Vulgate from the 10th >>to the 15th centuries. > >This may be true, but it would have little bearing on the application >of the knowledge of the history of the Vulgate text to understanding >the Old Latin & therefore the Western text, since for this we are by >far more concerned with the Vulgate in an earlier period, for which we >know the history better. Who knows? Within the literally thousands of later Vulgate Mss we might even detect more and different residues of Old Latin tincture than we already know, thus possibly pointing partly to a much stronger Old Latin element even in later times. This could even serve to strengthen your point, if I understand it correctly. [Schmid] >>Part of the NT Vulgate, for example the Pauline Epistles, most likely >>wasn't even the work of Jerome. > >Now how _would_ you tell the difference between this claim and the >scenario I described, that: >>>Besides, much of the New Testament, even in Jerome's Vulgate, was >>>copied almost unmodified from the Old Latin. Perhaps the Pope was >>>putting pressure on Jerome to finish. > >In either case, the Vulgate NT outside the Gospels remains mostly Old >Latin. So now it is my turn to ask you: what is the point _you_ are >trying to make? Again, your statement is much too unsubtle. According to _Walter Thiele, Probleme der Versio Latina in den Katholischen Briefen, in: Die Alten Uebersetzungen des Neuen Testaments, die Kirchenvaeterzitate und Lektionare (ed. K. Aland), ANTF 5 (Berlin - New York 1972), pp. 93-119_, the Vulgate of the Catholic Epistles, though interlocked with the Old Latin types, has a unique character when compared to the Old Latin. [Johnson] >The point I am trying to make is not that subtle or mysterious. It is >that the previous poster seems to be dismissing the Vulgate text as >irrelevant to finding original readings. But because of the close >relation between the Old Latin and the Western text, this dismissal is >uncalled for. So the point you are making is dependent on the role of the "Western text". Is this correct? But this involves a whole *kosmos* of theories on the "Western text", which are hotly debated. You simply cannot expect me (or others) to know which theories you subscribe to in that respect, nor that I subscribe. >But I am not arguing for unique original readings in the Vulgate. In >fact, I am not aware of any (although I would not be surprised if a very >small handful of such existed). What I am arguing for is its relevance >to the history of the text, and to the process of establishing which >reading best explains the others. Here we possibly meet one of the sources of our misunderstandings, if I may put it that way. You are concerned with *original readings* (Greek Urtext?) and overall textual history, while my concern in this case (i.e., Latin version) is a much more modest one. I'm simply struggling with the history of the *Latin versions* on its own. In that perspective your inferences from the Latin versions towards overall textual theory seems to me an example of oversimplification on the Latin side. >Since in a slightly earlier post you referred to Metzger's handling of >the longer ending of Mark, [snip] Now that strikes me. a) When ("slightly earlier") did I refer to Metzger? b) When did I refer to Metzger in a connection that is pertinent to our present discussion? Remember, my focus is on the Latin versions and the understanding of their development. From my point of view I only addressed questions related to that problem. (E.g., if Jerome were not responsible for the Vulgate of the whole NT, speculations on the pope's "pressure" accounting for the Old Latin element in the Vulgate is of no help.) I need to understand this problem first before connecting it to overall textual theory. Your initial abbreviated presentation of the Latin versions was too condensed to be clear to me. I simply called for a more detailed outline on your side. Maybe I should have been more explicit on that. Ulrich Schmid ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Netherlands Institute for Advanced Study schmiul@nias.knaw.nl From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Tue Feb 3 09:02:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA28575; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:02:21 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:08:42 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: tc-list The end of Pasor Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1408 Following Scanlin's suggestion, I checked RLIN for Pasor. It gives, in essence, only the titles we have already mentioned: various editions of a Greek-Latin lexicon, a Greek grammar, some editions and notes on Hesiod, and the (anonymous) NT glossed with Pasor's lexical aids. (The title of this last work is in Lincoln's post, and in my two "truncated" posts.) RLIN does, however (*and bless the bibliographer who did this!*), tell us that the edition mentioned by Lincoln is *not* from Pasor: in a comment, RLIN observes: "A school edition reproducing the text of H. Estienne's edition of 1576 with a few variations." So now we know that this is Estienne's Greek text, "cribbed" with Pasor's lexical helps (= "a school edition"). The title (a 1640 Elzevir edition) of another work, given by Garnier is his post yesterday, is just a lexicon. I checked with my good friend and colleague, Prof. Henk Jan de Jonge, of Leiden, who is an expert in this period of NT editions, and he informed me that he too neither knows of a bilingual (or any other) NT edition by Pasor, nor could he find any mention of one in the literature (which he knows inside and out). He did add that Pasor was Prof. of Greek in Franeker (an old university in Friesland, no longer extant; it ceased operations in the early 1800s) from 1626-1637. --Petersen, Penn State University, Netherlands Institute for Advanced Studies. From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Wed Feb 4 17:13:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA09739; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:13:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:19:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Ronald L. Minton" X-Sender: rminton@orionc0 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: tc-list dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 506 I have had difficulty in finding the birth and death dates of the following people who are related to textual studies and translation issues in a variety of ways. I will appreciate any help from anyone and I thank you ahead of time. Daniel Heinsius Ian Paisley Rene Pache Augustin Merk G.D. Kilpatrick Marchant King Harry A Sturz ( -1989) Edwin Palmer -- Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@mail.orion.org W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581 Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Wed Feb 4 22:19:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA11133; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:19:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:24:27 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: Ronald Minton To: "William L. Petersen" cc: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: Re: tc-list The end of Pasor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: rminton@orions0.orion.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 710 On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, William L. Petersen wrote: > Following Scanlin's suggestion, I checked RLIN for Pasor. It gives, in > essence, only the titles we have already mentioned: various editions of a > Greek-Latin lexicon, a Greek grammar, some editions and notes on Hesiod, > and the (anonymous) NT glossed with Pasor's lexical aids.... Thank you Dr. Petersen and all who worked on the Pasor exersize. I understand that Pasor's Greek grammar was the best (in any language) to that time. Some have even called it the first advanced or scientific Greek grammar. -- Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@mail.orion.org W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581 Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Thu Feb 5 04:28:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA12092; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:28:31 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:35:06 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: tc-list Dates of Merk, Heinsius, and Kilpatrick Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1196 The on-line catalogues should give all of these, at one or another site. Daniel Heinsius (Prof. of Poetry at Leiden, also taught Greek; nominated to his chair by Scaliger, and delivered one of the funeral orations at Scaliger's funeral; born 1580, died 1655). For those interested, see: H.J. de Jonge, *Daniel Heinsius and the Textus Receptus of the New Testament* (Leiden: Brill, 1971). Ian Paisley (if this is the N. Ireland Unionist) still lives. Augustin Merk is 1869-1945. G.D. Kilpatrick is 1910-1989. I'm sure you can find the others on-line, or other list members can help. --Petersen, Penn State University, Netherlands Institute for Advanced Studies. >I have had difficulty in finding the birth and death dates of the >following people who are related to textual studies and translation issues >in a variety of ways. I will appreciate any help from anyone and >I thank you ahead of time. > >Daniel Heinsius >Ian Paisley >Rene Pache >Augustin Merk >G.D. Kilpatrick >Marchant King >Harry A Sturz ( -1989) >Edwin Palmer > >-- >Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@mail.orion.org W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581 >Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Thu Feb 5 09:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA12955; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:20:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:20:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199802051420.JAA12950@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu> >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:56:20 GMT From: DC PARKER To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: Re: tc-list dates Content-Type: text Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 237 Kilpatrick: 1910-1989 That's the easiest. I'll include any more later if I can find time to chase them up. DC PARKER DEPT OF THEOLOGY UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM TEL. 0121-414 3613 FAX 0121-414 6866 E-MAIL PARKERDC@M4-ARTS.BHAM.AC.UK From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Fri Feb 6 20:57:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA22861; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:57:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:57:52 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Adair" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: Re: tc-list t-c C. P. Thiede In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1973 On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Matthew Johnson wrote: > This is getting further and further off the topic of Textual Criticism. > What is worse, I see that you did not even answer the question. Instead > you expose your own ideological bias by your subtle replacement of the > question with a different question. > > For the question was "do you know of an on-line source discussing the > _pros and cons_? But you answered with a site that is not only already > four years out-of-date, but is conspicuously purely against Thiede's > claim. So this site has no claim to be an on-line source discussing the > pros and cons. Let's remember that civility is a virtue on this list. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of NT scholars who have examined the papyri have concluded that Thiede's date in the first century is too early. In passing, I should note that saying that the argument is four-and-a-half years old proves nothing, since it appeared shortly after Theide's article in ZPE--it's the argument itself, not its date, that must be considered. Also, unless you can demonstrate that bias plays a role in the development of the argument, your disagreement with other pages on the site is irrelevant. Are there any online arguments that support Thiede? The only one I know of, and one that's worth reading, is by Jose O'Callaghan, "Un papiro revolucionario: 7Q5," which contains an interview with Father O'Callaghan on this and related subjects (http://ekeko.rcp.net.pe/IAL/vm/texts/ocal7q5.htm). Both this link and a link to Sigrid Peterson's article (at a different URL than given in an earlier post) are accessible from the TC-Links page: http://purl.org/TC/TC-links.html (which I hope qualifies as unbiased!). Jimmy Adair, Listowner, TC-List Manager of Information Technology Services, Scholars Press and Managing Editor of TELA, the Scholars Press World Wide Web Site -------------> http://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu <-------------- From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sat Feb 7 23:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA25993; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:49:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199802080450.UAA12671@mail-01.telis.org> Subject: Re: tc-list t-c C. P. Thiede Date: Sat, 7 Feb 98 20:57:02 -0800 x-sender: sohncom@mail-01.telis.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Dexter Garnier To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1862 On 2/6/98 5:57 PM James R. Adair wrote: >Are there any online arguments that support Thiede? The only one I know >of, and one that's worth reading, is by Jose O'Callaghan, "Un papiro >revolucionario: 7Q5," which contains an interview with Father O'Callaghan >on this and related subjects >(http://ekeko.rcp.net.pe/IAL/vm/texts/ocal7q5.htm). The following url will translate the interview at the url noted above into English: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? Also a short time back I purchased a pamphlet: _Supplement to JBL 91 (1972) No. 2_ It contains in English: 1. _New Testament Papyri In Qumran Cave 7?_ Jose O'Callaghan - Rome 2. _Notes on The Papyri of Qumran Cave 7_ Carlo Martini - Rome On the front cover is written the following brief introduction: "(In view of the publicity given in various news media in the U.S.A. to the matter contained in the acompanying articles, it has been decided to make an English version of them available as a service to JBL readers. The translation has been prepared from Jose O'Callaghan's Spanish article, "?Papiros neotestamentarios en la cueva 7 de Qumran?" _Biblica_ 53 (1972) 91-100, and from Carlo Martini's Italian article, "Note sui papiri della grotto 7 di Qumran," _ibid_., 101-4. Quotations in French and German in the original have been left intact; one quotation in Latin has been given an English translation. The translation of the two articles is the work of William L. Holladay, of Andover Newton Theological School, Newton Centre, Mass, 02159, to whom we are all grateful. Thanks are also due to the edi- tor of _Biblica_ for the permission to circulate this translation of the two articles. -- Editor.) I am not qualified to evaluate either article. However, both scholars (it seems to me) make points that at least merit interest. Regards, Dexter Garnier From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 8 04:39:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA26615; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 04:39:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199802080942.BAA24557@mail-01.telis.org> Subject: tc-list Re: O'Callaghan Interview Translation Date: Sun, 8 Feb 98 01:48:17 -0800 x-sender: sohncom@mail-01.telis.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Dexter Garnier To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 642 On 2/7/98 8:57 PM I wrote: >>(http://ekeko.rcp.net.pe/IAL/vm/texts/ocal7q5.htm). > >The following url will translate the interview at the url noted above >into English: > >http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? I should have noted that the translation(s) from the url above are machine translations and much less than perfect. But for those with no Spanish it does make the interview accessible. Also, it seems the document is too large to translate in its entirety, but it can be read by cutting and pasting sections into the "translate box." My apologies for not mentioning this in the first place. Dexter Garnier From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Wed Feb 11 18:10:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA15517; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:10:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:10:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199802112310.SAA15512@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu> >Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:38:37 GMT From: DC PARKER To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: tc-list Synoptic-L Content-Type: text Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1033 Subscribers to the list may be interested in the formation of a list on the Synoptic Problem, edited by my colleague Dr Mark Goodacre. A copy of his announcement follows: Synoptic-L Synoptic-L, a new Email conference on the interrelationships of the Synoptic Gospels, is now being launched. In order to subscribe, send an Email to Majordomo@bham.ac.uk with the following message in its body: Subscribe Synoptic-L For full details, visit the Synoptic-L web site at: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l Similar messages are being sent to Crosstalk, Joudaios-L, b-greek, Acts-L and Graphai. My apologies if you have received more than one announcement about Synoptic-L. -------------------------------------- Dr Mark Goodacre M.S.Goodacre@bham.ac.uk Dept of Theology, University of Birmingham Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre.htm DC PARKER DEPT OF THEOLOGY UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM TEL. 0121-414 3613 FAX 0121-414 6866 E-MAIL PARKERDC@M4-ARTS.BHAM.AC.UK From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Fri Feb 13 18:55:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA26114; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:55:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199802132345.AAA20569@mail1.arcadis.be> Subject: Re: tc-list Synoptic-L Date: Sam, 14 Fv 98 01:04:10 +0100 x-sender: vale5655@mail.arcadis.be x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jean VALENTIN To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 744 >Similar messages are being sent to Crosstalk, Joudaios-L, b-greek, >Acts-L and Graphai. My apologies if you have received more than one >announcement about Synoptic-L. > Dear Mr Parker, Thank you for the information! I have a little question: I have never heard of the list Acts-L. I suppose it is about the Acts of the Apostles, but I would like to find more about it. Where can I have more details? Thank you for your help. Jean V. _________________________________________________ Jean Valentin - Bruxelles - Belgique e-mail: jgvalentin@arcadis.be _________________________________________________ "Als liefde het antwoord is, kunt U dan misschien de vraag nog een keer stellen?" _________________________________________________ From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 16 02:27:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA01470; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: <34E7EC3B.D52DE042@concentric.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:35:23 -0800 From: "Kenneth D. Litwak" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: Re: tc-list Synoptic-L References: <199802132345.AAA20569@mail1.arcadis.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 340 Regarding Acts-L, it is a mailing list, as Jean surmised, on Acts, though it has branched out to Luke-Acts. You may request addition to the list by contacting Gregory Bloomquist. I hope this isn't secret knowledge and I just got myself in trouble! Ken Litwak M. Litt/Ph.D. program Trinity College/Univ. of Bristol Bristol, England From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 16 06:15:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA02011; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:15:29 -0500 Message-ID: From: "DC PARKER" Organization: Fac of Arts:The Univ. of Birmingham To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:59:40 GMT Subject: Re: tc-list Synoptic-L CC: aler@inf.uc3m.es Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199802132345.AAA20569@mail1.arcadis.be> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 275 Dear Colleague The information you require is on Mark Goodacre's home page: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre.htm#E-Lists With best wishes DC PARKER DEPT OF THEOLOGY UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM TEL. 0121-414 3613 FAX 0121-414 6866 E-MAIL PARKERDC@M4-ARTS.BHAM.AC.UK From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Wed Feb 18 10:04:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA12323; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:04:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:05:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199802181605.LAA08102@smtp02.kent.edu> X-Sender: dodellsc@pop.kent.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: "David W. Odell-Scott" Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1095 Can anyone suggest sources regarding secretarial letter writing practices? What I am interested in is whether secretaries would reply directly on the letter to which a response was being made? Or if there was ever the practice of partial erasure of the letter received and a reply being written over the erased portion (thus an extended quotation might be left as it were sent and the reply framed before and after the quotation). Did secretaries ever detach the glued seams of pages to reconstruct another text? Or did they ever cut the page and attach to a new text? I have not been able to find leads to follow up this line of questioning. It could be that there are no leads because there were no such practices. Also, do any of you know of listservices or groups or what have you which might are concerned with just the study of papyrus letters, religious or otherwise? Thank you. David W. Odell-Scott Associate Professor of Philosophy Coordinator of Religious Studies Philosophy Department Kent State University Kent, Ohio 44242-0001 Voice (330) 672-2315 FAX (330) 672-4867 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Wed Feb 18 12:43:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13194; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:43:48 -0500 Message-ID: <34EB1F7D.DC285D24@inetport.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:50:54 -0600 From: Burkenstock X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 i86pc) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: tc-list Re: References: <199802181605.LAA08102@smtp02.kent.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FB1953517DB4AB6D4D382B27" Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 3097 --------------FB1953517DB4AB6D4D382B27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David W. Odell-Scott wrote: > Can anyone suggest sources regarding secretarial letter writing practices? > What I am interested in is whether secretaries would reply directly on the > letter to which a response was being made? Or if there was ever the > practice of partial erasure of the letter received and a reply being > written over the erased portion (thus an extended quotation might be left as > it were sent and the reply framed before and after the quotation). Did > secretaries ever detach the glued seams of pages to reconstruct another > text? Or did they ever cut the page and attach to a new text? > > I have not been able to find leads to follow up this line of questioning. It > could be that there are no leads because there were no such practices. > > Also, do any of you know of listservices or groups or what have you which > might are concerned with just the study of papyrus letters, religious or > otherwise? I can forward your letter to a good friend of mine who is a papyrologist, Dr. David Martinez. I'll see what he knows. Burke Gerstenschlager -- "I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning. - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_ --------------FB1953517DB4AB6D4D382B27 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David W. Odell-Scott wrote:
Can anyone suggest sources regarding secretarial letter writing practices?
What I am interested in is whether secretaries would reply directly on the
letter to which a response was being made?  Or if there was ever the
practice of partial erasure of the letter received and a reply being
written over the erased portion (thus an extended quotation might be left as
it were sent and the reply framed before and after the quotation).  Did
secretaries ever detach the glued seams of pages to reconstruct another
text?  Or did they ever cut the page and attach to a new text?

I have not been able to find leads to follow up this line of questioning. It
could be that there are no leads because there were no such practices.

Also, do any of you know of listservices or groups or what have you which
might are concerned with just the study of papyrus letters, religious or
otherwise?

I can forward your letter to a good friend of mine who is a papyrologist, Dr. David Martinez. I'll see what he knows.

Burke Gerstenschlager 

-- 
"I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning.
        - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_
  --------------FB1953517DB4AB6D4D382B27-- From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Wed Feb 18 15:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA14157; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:31:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Adair" To: TC List , "Miqra: Hebrew Bible Discussion List" , "Graphai: NT Discussion List" , Synoptic-L Subject: tc-list new/improved SP fonts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 1933 Updated versions of the public-domain SP fonts are now available for downloading at ftp://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu/pub/fonts. Several of our existing fonts have been enhanced in one way or another. For example, the dotless d/r has been added to SPEdessa, sub-linear dots and circles (for transcriptions) have been added to SPTiberian, and an overstrike character for nomina sacra has been added to SPIonic. Two new fonts, SPDamascus and SPDoric have been created, and an italic version of SPAtlantis is also now available. A brief description of the fonts follows: SPTiberian: Our standard Hebrew/Aramaic font. SPDamascus: A thinner Hebrew/Aramaic font, which includes super-linear Palestinian vowel points. It may be used with SPTiberian in documents in which it is useful to distinguish Hebrew from Aramaic. SPEzra: A fixed-width Hebrew/Aramaic font. SPIonic: Our standard Greek font. SPDoric: A simpler, uncial font. SPAchmim: A Coptic font. SPEdessa: A Syriac Estrangela font. SPAtlantis: A transliteration font, with alphabetic characters and numerous diacritical and special characters, including subdots, superdots, macrons, breves, rockers (for H/h), and raise left and right half-rings (to transliterate ayin & alef, bzw.). An italic version of this font is also available. Note that these fonts were designed primarily for displaying non-Roman characters on Web pages, and they are the standard fonts used in _TC: A Journal of Bibical Textual Criticism_ (http://purl.org/TC). For this reason, the character maps for Macintoshes and Windows machines are identical in all the fonts. In addition to their intended use as display fonts, they also look reasonably good in print. Tell your friends! Jimmy Adair Manager of Information Technology Services, Scholars Press and Managing Editor of TELA, the Scholars Press World Wide Web Site -------------> http://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu <-------------- From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Thu Feb 19 01:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA17126; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:35:09 -0500 From: "Dr Johann Cook" Organization: University of Stellenbosch To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:32:54 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: tc-list new/improved SP fonts X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Dr Johann Cook" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.40) Message-ID: Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 2781 > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:31:10 -0500 (EST) > From: "James R. Adair" > To: TC List , > Hebrew Bible Discussion List" , > NT Discussion List" , > Synoptic-L > Subject: tc-list new/improved SP fonts > Reply-to: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu > Updated versions of the public-domain SP fonts are now available for > downloading at ftp://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu/pub/fonts. Several of our > existing fonts have been enhanced in one way or another. For example, the > dotless d/r has been added to SPEdessa, sub-linear dots and circles (for > transcriptions) have been added to SPTiberian, and an overstrike character > for nomina sacra has been added to SPIonic. Two new fonts, SPDamascus and > SPDoric have been created, and an italic version of SPAtlantis is also now > available. A brief description of the fonts follows: > > SPTiberian: Our standard Hebrew/Aramaic font. > > SPDamascus: A thinner Hebrew/Aramaic font, which includes super-linear > Palestinian vowel points. It may be used with SPTiberian in documents in > which it is useful to distinguish Hebrew from Aramaic. > > SPEzra: A fixed-width Hebrew/Aramaic font. > > SPIonic: Our standard Greek font. > > SPDoric: A simpler, uncial font. > > SPAchmim: A Coptic font. > > SPEdessa: A Syriac Estrangela font. > > SPAtlantis: A transliteration font, with alphabetic characters and > numerous diacritical and special characters, including subdots, superdots, > macrons, breves, rockers (for H/h), and raise left and right half-rings > (to transliterate ayin & alef, bzw.). An italic version of this font is > also available. > > Note that these fonts were designed primarily for displaying non-Roman > characters on Web pages, and they are the standard fonts used in _TC: A > Journal of Bibical Textual Criticism_ (http://purl.org/TC). For this > reason, the character maps for Macintoshes and Windows machines are > identical in all the fonts. In addition to their intended use as display > fonts, they also look reasonably good in print. Tell your friends! > > Jimmy Adair > Manager of Information Technology Services, Scholars Press > and > Managing Editor of TELA, the Scholars Press World Wide Web Site > -------------> http://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu <-------------- > Dear Jimmy Excellent! JNSL 23/2 is now available. Your off-prrints are in the post. greetings > > Prof. Johann Cook Department of Ancient Near Eastern Studies University of Stellenbosch 7600 Stellenbosch SOUTH AFRICA tel 22-21-8083207 fax: 22-21-8083480 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sun Feb 22 07:52:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA01428; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:52:59 -0500 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:34:24 +0000 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: Steven Carr Subject: tc-list DC Parker - Living Text - Book Review MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 571 There is a book review of D.C.Parker's book 'The Living Text of the Gospels' in 'Church Times' 20 Feb 1998, by the Revd. Colin Hickling. I quote the last paragraph 'This is then, an authoritative overview by an expert of a sometimes neglected field of study. It is well written, needs no knowledge of Greek, and will be valued by all who enjoy the detail of a carefully conducted argument.'. It is indeed an excellent book and aimed at just my level. -- Steven Carr steven@bowness.demon.co.uk Visit the UK's leading atheist Web page http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/ From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mon Feb 23 11:46:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA01531; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:46:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:46:35 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Adair" To: TC List , "Graphai: NT Discussion List" Subject: tc-list Hugoye: Vol. 1 No. 1 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 2390 I'm forwarding this message from George Kiraz, General Editor of Hugoye, concerning the first issue of Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies, an online, peer-reviewed journal. Jimmy Adair General Editor of TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism -------------------> http://purl.org/TC <-------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:28:31 -0500 From: George Kiraz Subject: Hugoye: Vol. 1 No. 1 The Syriac Computing Institute is pleased to announce the publication of the first issue of its electronic journal, "Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies". This issue features articles by: Sebastian BROCK, University of Oxford Andreas JUCKEL, University of M=FCnster Dirk KRUISHEER & Lucas VAN ROMPAY, University of Leiden Richard E. McCARRON, The Catholic University of America The issue also features 4 conference and project reports and 2 articles on recent publications in the field of Syriac studies. The journal is available at: Home Site: http://www.acad.cua.edu/syrcom/Hugoye/index.html (Catholic Univ. of America) Mirror Site: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/gk105/syrcom/Hugoye/index.html (Cambridge Univ., U.K.) If you would like to receive further notifications when a new issue is published, please register your email at the address: http://www.acad.cua.edu/syrcom/Hugoye/VolInd.html For information on submitting articles, please see under 'Submission' on the site. Please note that the Home site of the Syriac Computing Institute is now hosted at the Catholic University of America: http://www.acad.cua.edu/syrcom/index.html George Anton Kiraz, Ph.D. Hugoye, General Editor --=20 \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ George Anton Kiraz \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_ \_ \_ Language Modeling Research \_ \_ \_ \_ Bell Laboratories \_ \_ \_ \_ Lucent Technologies \_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_ \_ Room 2D-513 \_ \_ 700 Mountain Ave. \_ \_ Murray Hill, NJ 07974 \_ \_ Tel. +1 908 582 4074 \_ \_ Fax. +1 908 582 3306 \_\_\_ gkiraz@research.bell-labs.com From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Tue Feb 24 09:10:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA06393; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:10:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:11:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199802241511.KAA05640@smtp02.kent.edu> X-Sender: dodellsc@pop.kent.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: "David W. Odell-Scott" Subject: Re: tc-list Re: Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 269 Thanks Burke, I appreciate any assistance you have to offer. David David W. Odell-Scott Associate Professor of Philosophy Coordinator of Religious Studies Philosophy Department Kent State University Kent, Ohio 44242-0001 Voice (330) 672-2315 FAX (330) 672-4867 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Tue Feb 24 17:50:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA09231; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:50:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:57:23 -0600 (CST) From: "Ronald L. Minton" X-Sender: rminton@orionc0 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: tc-list biblical mss. in the DS scrolls In-Reply-To: <199802241511.KAA05640@smtp02.kent.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 522 I was reading about biblical mss. from among the Dead Sea Scrolls. I apologize for not having Harold Scanlin's email address. Harold, in his excellent and valuable 1993 book _The Dead Sea Scrolls_, p. 10, says "There are about 250 Qumran biblical manuscripts...." How does this relate to p. 107, "The number of O.T. mss. among the Dead Sea Scroll discoveries (180)...."? -- Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@mail.orion.org W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581 Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Tue Feb 24 23:43:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA09959; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:43:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:50:05 +0800 (WST) From: Timothy John Finney X-Sender: finney@central To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: tc-list Error in OLB at Heb 6.10 In-Reply-To: <199802230730.CAA00863@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 339 This is a message for Maurice Robinson whose address I don't have handy... I think that I have found an error in your electronic TR text taken from Bakker's interlinear text. At Heb 6.10 END- should be ENED- (I can't remember how to spell the rest of the word.) This might be due to my (very old) OLB copy being corrupted. Tim Finney. From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Thu Feb 26 13:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA16709; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:19:21 -0500 Date: 26 Feb 1998 18:26:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19980226182636.369.qmail@np.nosc.mil> To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu In-reply-to: (message from Timothy John Finney on Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:50:05 +0800 (WST)) Subject: Re: tc-list Error in OLB at Heb 6.10 From: Vincent Broman Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 585 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > I think that I have found an error... My copy of Stephanus from the OLB reads: hebr-06-10 OU GAR ADIKOS O QEOS EPILAQESQAI TOU ERGOU UMWN KAI TOU KOPOU THS AGAPHS HS ENEDEICASQE EIS TO ONOMA AUTOU DIAKONHSANTES TOIS AGIOIS KAI DIAKONOUNTES Vincent Broman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNPWzyGCU4mTNq7IdAQEgcwP6A9p6yw3Pk4ZrteuQ4OoKgThnSz7wE9jI yBqBdT7VWfJMyBDP+nDq96FPbumDh2x4oFSRONZir0/2V07uE1FYh3LP8tS/DQi+ PHzcWWyS43qsm1fQHgbP23HzM4AtAhZAhiDG97vzL7T1ltVAwSGDNT8DhEaTji6X FEqRhKJMXVc= =HyAb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Fri Feb 27 09:38:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA19700; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:38:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:38:25 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Adair" To: Franz Schredl cc: TC List Subject: tc-list Codex B. In-Reply-To: <199802270100.UAA03157@maestro.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 823 Franz, I'm copying your message to the tc-list, to see if anyone there knows the answer to your question. Jimmy Adair, Listowner, TC-List Manager of Information Technology Services, Scholars Press and Managing Editor of TELA, the Scholars Press World Wide Web Site -------------> http://shemesh.scholar.emory.edu <-------------- On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Franz Schredl wrote: > Hi, > > Almost two years ago I got information from the Biblioteca Apostolica > Vaticana that the Istituto Poligrafico dello Stato, the Italian State > publishing hose is in the process of producing a complete color > facsimile of Codex B. > > I have not heard anything since then. Does anyone have some > updated information on where this stands or a way to indicate how I > can contact the Istituto? > > Thank you. > Franz Schredl > From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Fri Feb 27 16:47:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA27489; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:47:25 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:54:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Ronald L. Minton" X-Sender: rminton@orionc0 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Subject: tc-list dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 348 Many thanks for the previous help on those pesky dates. I am still looking for dates on these men: Ian Paisley -birth date needed- Rene Pache Marchant King Harry A Sturz ( -1989) Edwin Palmer -- Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@mail.orion.org W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581 Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sat Feb 28 08:10:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA29507; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:10:29 -0500 X-Sender: petersen@ns1.nias.knaw.nl Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:17:44 +0200 To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu From: WLPetersen@nias.knaw.nl (William L. Petersen) Subject: Re: tc-list dates Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 564 For Ron Minton: I'd suggest checking in a "Who's Who" at the local library for Paisley's birthdate. Write to Sturz' school (or publisher), and ask when he was born. Ditto for the others. --Petersen. >Many thanks for the previous help on those pesky dates. >I am still looking for dates on these men: > >Ian Paisley -birth date needed- >Rene Pache >Marchant King >Harry A Sturz ( -1989) >Edwin Palmer > >-- >Prof. Ron Minton: rminton@mail.orion.org W (417)268-6053 H 833-9581 >Baptist Bible Graduate School 628 E. Kearney St. Springfield, MO 65803 From owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Sat Feb 28 19:11:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by shemesh.scholar.emory.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA01615; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:11:18 -0500 From: DrJDPrice Message-ID: <24a96431.34f8a959@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:18:31 EST To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: tc-list dates Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tc-list@shemesh.scholar.emory.edu content-length: 425 Hi Ron: << Many thanks for the previous help on those pesky dates. I am still looking for dates on these men: Ian Paisley -birth date needed- Rene Pache Marchant King Harry A Sturz ( -1989) Edwin Palmer >> Marchant King was my theology professor in Seminary. He taught at Northwest Baptist Seminary in Tacoma, Washington. I don't have their address handy. Surely someone there knows his dates. Jim Price