Subject: tc-list Jude 5

From: [email-masked] (John R Russell)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:07:48 -0400

I am looking at the placement of hAPAC in Jude 5 and noticed that UBS and
NA did not list any Greek manuscripts as witnesses for any of the
variants.  Are there any Greek manuscipts in the Western text that have
the book of Jude?  If so, does anyone know what they read here?

I also noticed that the critical Greek texts placed hAPAC later in the
verse than the English translations (NASB, NIV).  What are the thoughts
out there on the placement of hAPAC?

Thanks for your responses.

John Russell
ThM student 
Baptist Bible Seminary, PA

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

---

From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:50:48 -0500

>the book of Jude?  If so, does anyone know what they read here?

This depends on how you define the "Western" text. Some scholars,
such as Amphoux, have maintained that Family 2138 (429, 522, 614+2412,
630+2200, 1505+2495, 1611, 2138, etc., plus the Harklean Syriac)
is the "Western" text. It should be noted, however, that this group
does *not* stand close to the few Old Latin texts of the Catholic
Epistles. Personally, I do not think Family 2138 is "Western."

Apart from this possible "Western" family, there are no "Western"
texts of the Catholic Epistles.

>out there on the placement of hAPAC?

There are really two variants here: one the location of APAX (sorry,
I use a different Greek keyboard layout :-) and one the title used.
If we observe only the position of APAX, we find that it is

FIRST in
  Alexandrian witnesses: Aleph Psi sa bo
  Family 1739 witnesses: C* 322 323 1241 1243 1739 1881 2297
  Family 2138 witnesses: 630 1505 1611 2138 2412 2495 sy-hark

LAST in
  Alexandrian witnesses: P72 A B 33 81 436
  Family 1739 witnesses: 945
  Byzantine witnesses: K L 049 (056) (0142) etc.

As far as *I'm* concerned, the external evidence is decisive. Of the
three early text-types (Alexandrian, Family 1739, Family 2138), the
latter two clearly place APAX first. The Alexandrian text is split.
The word belings in the front position, as in UBS.

As for the choice betwee QEOS, KURIOS, etc., that's another matter.

As far as the translations go, are you sure the differences
aren't simply translational? If not, it's probably a case of
blindly following the Alexandrian text.

Bob Waltz
[email-masked]

"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

---

From: [email-masked] (James J. Cate)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:57:41 -0700

John,

Due to the brevity of the letter, no firm evidence remains for the
existence in the letter of Jude of the wild and somewhat paraphrastic
textual tradition known as the "Western" type of text in the Gospels and
Acts.  The Western text has not even been established conclusively for
the Catholic Epistles as a group. Unfortunately, for the Catholic
Epistles the primary Western witness in the Gospels and Acts, the
bilingual Codex Bezae, is extant only on the Latin side of 3 Jn. 11-15
due to a 67-page lacuna. Several Old Latin manuscripts (32, 55, 64, 65,
67) have some Western readings, but these mss are either not extant in
Jude or they have Vulgate readings in the extant portion.

Furthermore, whether these alleged Western readings in these OL mss
originated in the process of translation or in Greek exemplars is still
unknown. For example, Adolf von Harnack, "Zur Textkritik und Christologie
der Schriften des Johannes," SPAW (1915): 534-73, felt that Greek mss
which are no longer extant carried many of the peculiar Old Latin
readings, but of course such speculation can neither be proven nor offer
evidence as to which readings are Western.

In my recent dissertation at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary,
"The Text of the Catholic Epistles and the Revelation in the Writings of
Origen," I analyzed textually Origen's references to those works.
Unfortunately, he only had references to four verses of Jude and verse 5
was not one of them.

I would encourage you to consult:

Sakae Kubo, "Textual Relationships in Jude," in *Studies in New Testament
Language and Text: Essays in Honour of George D. Kilpatrick on the
Occasion of his sixty-fifth Birthday,* ed. J. K. Elliott, NovTSup 44
(Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1976), 276-82.

Charles Landon, *A Text-Critical Study of the Epistle of Jude,* JSNTSup
135 (Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 1996).

Kubo was only able to detect two text types in Jude: Alexandrian and
Byzantine. Landon was trying to establish the original readings for the
text of Jude, not textual groupings. I don't have his work here in front
of me so I can't look up to see if he discusses verse 5.

--jeff

Jeff Cate, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Christian Studies
California Baptist College
Riverside, California 92508

On Fri, 22 May 1998 09:07:48 -0400 [email-masked] (John R Russell)
writes:
>I am looking at the placement of hAPAC in Jude 5 and noticed that UBS 
>and NA did not list any Greek manuscripts as witnesses for any of the 
>variants.  Are there any Greek manuscipts in the Western text that 
>have the book of Jude?  If so, does anyone know what they read here?
>
>verse than the English translations (NASB, NIV).  What are the 
>thoughts out there on the placement of hAPAC?
>
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get 
>completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno 
>at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

---

From: "DC PARKER" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:52:26 GMT

There are various helpful studies of this verse.  E.g. C.D. Osburn, 
'The Text of Jude 5', Biblica 62 (1981), 107-115, and most recently 
Charles Landon, A Text-Critical Study of the Epistle of Jude (JSNTSS 
135), Sheffield, 1996; for this variant see pp. 70-77.

DC PARKER
DEPT OF THEOLOGY
UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM
TEL. 0121-414 3613
FAX  0121-414 6866
E-MAIL [email-masked]