Subject: Re: tc-list Quote by Bruce Metzger

From: Michael Holmes <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:51:03 -0500 (CDT)

Colleagues,

Regarding the quotations attributed to Bruce Metzger in an article by a Rev.
Greg Neal on 7Q5 and the Magdalen papyri, which have been the subject of
much speculation lately on this list: the webmaster of the site where the
article was posted informs me that he confronted (via telephone) Neal, who
admits to fabricating the quotations--"totally and completely," as the
webmaster put it.

Mike Holmes

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From: Jack Kilmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:48:36 -0500

> admits to fabricating the quotations--"totally and completely," as the

    This is the kind of thing that really "chaps my butt" (is there Greek for
that?)
If there was ever even a remote possibility that 7Q5 could have been part
of an "Ur-Markus" it will never get a thorough "going over" because of all
the nonsense.  I would have been willing to listen to arguments about 7Q5
but it's pairing with the Magdalen Papyri as an "eyewitness" Matthew will
insure that any arguments, no matter how valid or otherwise, will not be
heard.

Jack

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From: Bruce Morrill <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:31:55 -0500 (CDT)

> admits to fabricating the quotations--"totally and completely," as the

This reminds me of gratitude I don't express enough to Jimmy Adair and
others who are trying to give us the advantages of the Web and electronic
publishing, while retaining the time-proven safeguards of peer review, etc
that Larry Hurtado has stressed to us.

Bruce Morrill   [email-masked]

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From: Yuri Kuchinsky <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:42:50 -0400 (EDT)

Dear friends,

This is a very stimulating work that deals with many much
neglected subjects and source materials in the history of early
Christianity:

AUTHOR: Franzmann, Majella, 1952-                                    
TITLE: Jesus in the Nag Hammadi writings
PUBLISHED: Edinburgh : T & T Clark, 1996.                        
DESCRIPTION: xxv, 293 p.                                           
NOTES: Includes bibliographical references (p. 215-246) and
          indexes.                                               
ISBN: 0567085260                                                 

In her Chapter 1, Franzmann complains that, in spite of some rather
unconvincing disclaimers, still far too few NT scholars are taking
non-canonical materials seriously when dealing with early
Christian literature, traditions, and beliefs. This is what has been
described by some as "the tyranny of the canon" that is still very
much with us.

Franzmann writes that Helmut Koester has repeatedly called for a
broadening of perspective to include more non-canonical
materials,

     [Back in 1980] ... Koester calls attention once again to the
     problem of "deep-seated prejudices" reflected in the attitude
     of New Testament scholars towards the apocryphal writings
     [APOCRYPHAL AND CANONICAL GOSPELS, HTR 73
     (1980): 105-30, p. 130], yet scholars continue to ignore the
     exhortation. There is little or no reference to non-canonical
     material, for example, in recent work in Meier, Green and
     Turner, and Charlesworth (1988). In the latter case, only Gos.
     Thom. in the Nag Hammadi texts is seen as essential for the
     historical Jesus quest (83-90) [In the footnote she says that
     Meier's second volume of his THE MARGINAL JEW "contains
     more detailed argumentation against using Gos. Thom.", but
     still, she finds his approach unsatisfying.]. Fredriksen's study
     makes no mention at all of any non-canonical text, even in
     the final chapter, "Jesus of Nazareth in Christian Tradition"
     (205-15). (p. 4)

While Charlesworth and Evans in their article dedicated to this
matter (Charlesworth and Evans, JESUS IN AGRAPHA AND
APOCRYPHAL GOSPELS, in Chilton and Evans, eds, STUDYING
THE HISTORICAL JESUS, Brill, 1994)

     ...state that the agrapha and apocryphal gospels should be
     given "due consideration", Evans' later work [JESUS AND
     HIS CONTEMPORARIES, Brill, 1995, p. 17] is much more
     critical, suggesting that the only credible material for Jesus
     research "ultimately derives from the canonical Gospels
     themselves" (p. 5)
     
Also, in the latter work, Craig A. Evans had authored some rather pointed
polemics directed at what he describes as "influential coterie of
American scholars", especially the "Jesus Seminar and its
sympathisers" (26-40), i.e. at the scholars who are actually paying
attention to these much-neglected sources. 

Franzmann notes that there are far too few scholars in N. America
indeed, with few exceptions like James Robinson and Crossan,
who are giving appropriate consideration to non-canonical
materials.

In particular, she also says this about recent surveys dealing with
the gospel genre,

     With few exceptions within recent work devoted to gospel
     genre, scholars either fail to mention the apocrypha at all
     (e.g. Cantwell; Dahl; Dihle; and Thatcher), or make a footnote
     or two to Gos. Thom. (e.g. Stuhlmacher 1991b, 7), or they
     mention the apocrypha briefly only to dismiss them (e.g. Keck
     117; Kee 1977, 271; Stanton 1989, 125-35; and Sanders 64-5). 
     ... One gains the impression from such studies that the
     apocryphal material need not be taken seriously when
     dealing with "gospel".

     A similar approach can be found in recent works whose titles
     appear to promise a breadth of scholarship. [Here she cites
     recent works by David Aune and Robert M. Grant, and finds them
     rather unsatisfying.] (p. 7)

Further on, she quotes John G. Gager who suggested some 20
years ago that, surprisingly enough, for too many scholars
investigating the Historical Jesus, and pretending to historical
objectivity,

     ...religious authority [of the NT writings] as sacred scripture
     has been extended to cover their historical authority as well"
     [Gager, THE GOSPELS AND JESUS: SOME DOUBTS
     ABOUT METHOD, Journal of Religion 54: p. 244-72] (p. 14) 

And such a methodological approach is hardly justified.

Franzmann especially takes to task Robert M. Grant,

     A good example of the distortion which a misguided
     confessional stance can bring to the research enterprise is
     found in Grant's study of the Christ of the second century
     [Grant, JESUS AFTER THE GOSPELS: THE CHRIST OF
     THE SECOND CENTURY, 1990]. For Grant, christology is
     essentially to be derived from the canonical Gospels. ... One
     can only wonder in disbelief at the methodological
     perspective from which Grant can write:

          In spite of the exciting and valuable Gnostic documents
          recovered from Nag Hammadi in Egypt, the basic
          starting point for the study of the Gnostics has to lie in
          the earliest criticisms by Christians who wrote against
          heresies (41). (p. 21)

The above survey of the situation in the field comes from Chapter 1 of
Franzmann's book. The rest of her work is devoted to a detailed
consideration of what insights about Jesus we can gain from Nag Hammadi
writings. Some time later I will add more about what she says in the rest
her book. 

It seems quite probable to me that the NH writings, besides containing a
lot of later material dating perhaps to the 2nd and 3rd centuries, also
preserve quite a bit of material that is rather early. Especially in the
case of the Gospel of Thomas, most of the sayings definitely seem
pre-canonical.

By the way, I have found quite a bit of material in Franzmann's overview
of NH texts that tends to support the view that the earliest post-Easter
Christian faith was Adoptionist.

Best regards,

Yuri. 
                                                         
Yuri Kuchinsky || Toronto 
                               
http://www.trends.net/~yuku/bbl/bbl.htm                  
                                                         
The goal proposed by Cynic philosophy is apathy, which is
equivalent to becoming God -=O=- Julian

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From: Jack Kilmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:48:33 -0500

Friends:

    I have made a number of revisions to the "scribal" fonts, giving them
standard keyboard placement consistent with other commonly used
Greek and Hebrew fonts.  So far they consist of:

Codex Sinaiticus Uncial
Lachish Ostracon Cursive Palaeohebrew
Moabite/Mesha Stone Epigraphic Paleohebrew
Elephantine Papyrus Script
Samaritan
Meissner Papyrus Script

    I am also working on a minuscule Greek and a DSS script.

    You can download them for free on my website in the "downloads"
section.  Scroll through the fonts to "Jack's Fonts" and help yourself.
I hope you find some use for "scribal" fonts.

Jack
[email-masked]
http://www.historian.net

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From: Burkenstock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:00:01 -0500

> I have a question: a friend who does not know any ancient languages has asked
> me to suggest a concordance. She doesn't want a Strong's and she'd like the
> Metzger one with NRSV, but she says it's out of print. Any suggestions?  She
> would like to avoid KJV as well.

Thanks,
Burke

--
Burke Gerstenschlager
[email-masked]
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~charis

"I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can,
using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use - silence, exile, and cunning.
        - Stephen Dedalus _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_

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From: Ralph Nielsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:40:53 -0700

BERT GERSTENSCHLAGER
>> would like to avoid KJV as well.
RALPH NIELSEN
Try Christian Book Distributors:

E-mail: [email-masked]
Web: http://www.christianbook.com

CBD has been closing out the Metzger NRSV concordance for only $9.95. I
suspect that the publisher is working on a concordance to the NRSV which
will contain Hebrew and Greek indexes as well, and at a substantially
higher price.

Ralph Nielsen
Retired librarian