Subject: tc-list Nicene and Apostles' Creeds

From: "Bruce Prior" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:39:23 PDT

TCers --

Could somebody point me to a transcription of a reliable manuscript or a 
critical edition of both the Nicene and Apostles' Creeds?  Thanks.

J. Bruce Prior in Blaine, WA  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (U.B.Schmid)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:47:28 +0200

> J. Bruce Prior in Blaine, WA  [email-masked]

I would suggest you should consult J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Creeds, 
3rd ed., London 1972. Kelly devoted a chapter of his book to each of the two 
creeds (and to many more, of course). There you can find all the relevant 
information.

------------------------------------------
Dr. Ulrich Schmid
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:33:42 -0400

For the Nicene Creed, the standard source listed in CLAVIS PATRUM GRAECORUM
is as follows:  
	Joannou, Pericles-Pierre, ed., FONTI, FASCICULO IX.  DISCIPLINE GENERALE
ANTIQUE.  Tome 1.1.  LES CANONS DES CONCILES OECUMENIQUES.  (Rome:
Typographica Italo-Orientale, 1962).
For the Apostles' Creed. CLAVIS PATRUM LATINORUM would probably give you a
reference.  --Rod Mullen

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From: lakr <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT)

Dear list,

Rev 5:14 in the AV has text at the end of this verse that does not appear
in the NA27th.  I am not an expert in interpreting the critical aparatus,
but it did not seem to have anything for this verse.  Can someone point
me to a resource that can show where these additional words came from?

Thanks,
Larry Kruper

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From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:26:01 -0500

>me to a resource that can show where these additional words came from?

I assume the reference is actually to the TR, not the AV, right? :-)

The passage in question is ZWNTI EIS TOUS AIWNAS TWN AIWNWN, and it
is indeed in the TR and not noted in the NA27 margin. (This is by
no means uncommon; NA27 is NOT a complete critical apparatus, and no
effort was made to include the readings of the TR.) In this case,
the "correct" course is to go to Tischendorf and Von Soden (or, specifically
for the Apocalypse, Hoskier and Schmidt). For those of us who can't
get our hands on those volumes, the best hand edition is certainly
Merk. Looking there, we find only two Greek witnesses cited: 922
and 2026. It is also supported by the Latin witness D (Book of Armagh),
by the pseudo-Ambrose, and by Primasius.

Presumably Erasmus derived it from some Latin thing or other.
But certainly it has no place in the New Testament text. Even
the supporters of the Majority Text would agree with this assessment. 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

                        Robert B. Waltz
                     [email-masked]

Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
(A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)