Subject: tc-list RE- The Living Text

From: "Mr. Gary S. Dykes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:00:59 -0700

Professor Willker (and TC- list community)
   My web site, which is under construction, will make known my
understandings about variants and the Word of God. Indeed, you are to be
congratulated, this is a major issue -- a silent one which haunts many
conservative pastors. Traditionally TC of the Bible has been subjected
exclusively to human logic, using established principles derived from
classical scholarship.
    To the written Word of God the classical canons of criticism have been
applied. One result of this has been chaos, especially amongst pagan
scholars -- as they cannot determine which reading is original in many
cases. Thus they claim (some do) the original text is unrecoverable,  when
conservatives here of this lamentation despair can set in, or the critics
are just ignored. And this is the case in many churches and parishes, the
critics/scholars are ignored.
    My thesis is to posit that the possession and reliance upon the
indwelling Holy Spirit is mandatory for critical exegesis to proceed. Only
an obedient saint has the ability to use and enjoy the variants. Such gifted
saints live and experience the living Word, it is part of their daily lives
in every aspect (Hebrews 4:12). They have an extremely close living
relationship with the Word! Which means that total agreement or complete
uniformity will not result. For each qualified elected person/scholar may
truly have a different perspective and choice. I believe God allows for
this. Variants exist because God did not want Satan to be able to focus upon
ONE single original. It lies in this dispersed in this large panoply of
manuscripts, protected, and believers only have the Key by which to extract
the true text when variants do arise. The true text is dispersed amongst
many copies, and gifted saints/scholars can reconstruct the originals. Much
training is required, and not all saints have this unique ministry, and it
will engender some bitterness, but faith must prevail.
    It is this unique faith which pagan critics lack, they cannot even
comprehend how a believer (an elected person) can see some poorly attested
variant as genuine.
    It is understood that the canons of textual criticism are very needed
and useful, I rely upon them in my work, but the witness of the Holy Spirit
is often overlooked.  Overlooked because it is not scientifically
observable. Both external and internal criteria must be used in decision
making, but the Holy Spirit should also be consulted, and only those folks
who have a healthy relationship through Christ with God can truly use this
powerful tool.

much more coming at my site,
at your service,
Mr. Gary S. Dykes  -  [email-masked]

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From: Mike and Jeanne Arcieri <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 09:01:38 -0400

> who have a healthy relationship through Christ with God can truly use this

Gary, 

Although I am not interested in starting a debate along these lines on the TC-LIST (but I would be 
willing to discuss this privately), I would like to ask you a question regarding your methodology: 
you state that

"the canons of textual criticism are very needed and useful, 
I rely upon them in my work, but the witness of the Holy Spirit 
is often overlooked. Overlooked because it is not scientifically 
observable. Both external and internal criteria must be used 
in decision making, but the Holy Spirit should also be consulted..."

I infer that your methodology is:

1 - apply the canons of TC on a select group of variants in order to determine which reading is the 
'original';
2 - 'consult' the Holy Spirit with regards to identifying the original reading.

Now since I have your methodology in theory, can you now demonstrate the _practical workings_ of this 
for the following passages?:

1. Matt. 27:35 ('that it might be fulfilled...')
2. John 5:7-8 (Johannine Comma)
3. Acts 8:37 ('and Philip said...')

Mike Arcieri

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From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:24:39 -0500

On 9/1/99, Mr. Gary S. Dykes wrote, in part:

[ ... ]

>indwelling Holy Spirit is mandatory for critical exegesis to proceed.

To this I must ask a very stupid question: If you and I both practice
criticism by trusting the "indwelling Holy Spirit," and we disagree,
how do we proceed?

Two different scholars practicing scientific methods may produce
different results, but both should achieve *repeatable* results.
The Holy Spirit, sad to say, does *not* produce repeatable results,
or else there would be no profusion of Protestant sects.

Again, to ask a stupid question, If you trust the Holy Spirit to
tell you what the Bible says, how can you trust the Bible in the
first place? If the Spirit tells you that 1 Corinthians 12:3 "ought"
to read "It is only by the Holy Spirit that one can say 'Jesus be
cursed,'" how can you prove that wrong? The Spirit told you to
do it! (And it is no good to say, "No, the Spirit didn't," because
while I freely concede that it didn't tell *you* that, there is
no question that others have gotten different messages. The
point is, how can you, without some form of non-spiritual
criteria for judgment, tell a "good" spirit from a "bad"?)

I find this attitude utterly incomprehensible -- and dangerous. 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

                        Robert B. Waltz
                     [email-masked]

Want more loudmouthed opinions about textual criticism?
Try my web page: http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn
(A site inspired by the Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism)