Subject: Re: tc-list More on American Responsibilities

From: Jim West <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:39:02 -0400

At 07:53 AM 9/18/99 -0700, you wrote:

>Mr. Dykes' reply is:
>
>    Materials which are of great importance for humanity should never be
>hoarded. Your isolationist views regarding Biblical films is depressing.

I have no such views.  I am simply saying that those who hold films have the
right to do as they please.

>What you mistake for nationalism, is just a simple reality. Do you expect
>Biblical scholars in Germany to support the ABMC's collection and to build
>it up? Would you expect the folks in Chile to support it with their hard
>earned incomes? 

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  Thats just the point Gary- so why do you want Munster to
send you some films when German tax payers have made it possible for them to
possess them?????
You want to get- but you dont want to send.  Rather selfish.

>The ABMC is an American tax deductible institution, existing
>on American soil. However it benefits all humans. You too can help all
>peoples access their films when you send in your donations to the ABMC
>(especially with their new Mt. Athos digitizing project). No one is asking
>you to mail any films. Mr. Phelps can only work with what he has, and if the
>IGNTP does not provide for the care of their films then where, Jim will you
>turn to?? 

Umm.. I dont know if you are aware of it or not but nearly every ms of the
Bible has been published in something we like to call books.  These books
are useufl because you can go to them and read them and view the excellent
photos in them without having to ask anyones permission.

>The institutions which do mail out films via Inter Library Loans
>have the proper insurances and protective measures in place so that all
>peoples can access what you wish they could not.

Thank God for the infallible mail system where you live.

>  I for one am glad you are
>not a librarian! But then again have you any need for Biblical films, as I
>know some scholars could care less if the Bible is preserved in any format.

:-)  This is funny.  I would suggest, however, that you are unfamiliar with
a number of facts:  1) I have in fact made use of the ABMC's holdings (when
doing some research some time back on a particular topic).  2) that your
effort to goad or insult or insinuate or whatever it is has fallen on deaf
ears; as it is impossible to do so.

>
>    Surely you must be aware that the originals (the master negatives)
>should never be mailed out, or did you only read part of my original post.

No- I read the whole thing.

>I do not think Munster would act as foolishly as you would, 

as I would?  What can you be here implying as I own no films at all and
would never mail them to anyone if I did- under ANY circumstances.

>they would
>surely only mail out a circulation copy. You too are in need of new eye
>glasses.

You are quite an insulting fellow Gary.  One must wonder how you learned
such behavior from your Savior.

> I would not mail an original (master negative) to just anybody
>either, on this we may agree.

Its not just original's I would not mail- but any copy.  Im glad the ABMC
does- but I wouldn't- and Im glad Munster doesn't.

>at your service,

not really true- is it?

>Mr. Gary S. Dykes

Best,

Jim

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jim West, ThD
email- [email-masked]
web page-  http://web.infoave.net/~jwest

---

From: Patrick Durusau <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:56:25 -0400

Greetings,

I am curious why Jim West has taken the position that he would not mail even
copies of orginal negatives. If these are only copies and the person requesting
the copies has paid a reasonable reproduction fee and postage/handling charges I
can't see through the smoke of this debate any reason to not send them. It would
be simpler to have high-resolution scans of the originals in digital format so
they could be transmitted upon request across the Internet but one could also
scan the negatives (with some degradation in the image) for similar delivery.

> does- but I wouldn't- and Im glad Munster doesn't.

As for the rest the charges and counter-charges I think scholarly hoarding of
material is quite common, particularly in the humanities without regard to
national origin or other external characteristic. A first step in changing that
behavior would be to approach funding agencies with the request that they adopt
policies that deny funding to projects that do (will) not openly share the
information/images developed as part of a project for the cost of reproduction.
That would allow Jim to support a non-sharing institution's right to act as it
pleased and allow foundations to encourage applicants who will make resources
available to a wider audience.

While examples of open sharing of data may be rare in the humanities that is not
the case in some scientific projects. The projects managed by the NRAO (National
Radio Astronomy Observatory), share raw data freely over the Internet since it is
recognized that such costly instruments can only be used by a few even if kept
online as much as humanly possible. I don't have the reference here at home but
on Monday of next week I can post the reference to the operational manual where
that goal is expressly stated. The shortage of access sounds quite similar to the
situation that prevails with regard to original source materials under discussion
here.

Does anyone have a calm and reasoned explanation for why material should not be
openly shared with others? Yes owners have the right to restrict access, yes
scholars can create contracts to restrict access, yes the provincials of every
stripe can restrict access, BUT is there any reason related to actual scholarly
inquiry that supports restricting access to scarce material? To put it another
way, how is my use of a resource diminished by Jim West or Gary Dykes also having
a copy of the material I am reading?

Patrick

Patrick Durusau
Information Technology Services
Scholars Press
Manager, ITS
[email-masked] (home)
[email-masked] (work)

---

From: "Mr. Gary S. Dykes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:29:57 -0700

> You want to get- but you dont want to send.  Rather selfish.

Dykes replies:
    Apparently you do not know where many films in Munster came from, many
were sent there from America paid for by joint US and British groups. The
Institute in Munster did receive much money from corporations (German
corporations) lke Volkswagon,  et cetera, NOT its taxpayers. You are blowing
hot air. Who are you trying to fool?  Why this petty arguing? The real issue
is taking care of films near us here in this country, that is THE issue. Not
your petty agruing.

> photos in them without having to ask anyones permission.

Dykes replies:
    Again your hot air: many facsimile editions leave a lot to be desired as
far as critical work is concerned. Films can be better in some cases, and I
can prove this as I have a photograph which we can compare with a color
facsimile edition. Show me a book of minuscule 1424. It is obvious that you
are not a professional (or serious critic of Biblical mss), else you would
be aware of the limitation imposed by facsimile editions, (of which I own
numerous editions of).

> would never mail them to anyone if I did- under ANY circumstances.

Dykes replies:
    No, but that you imply that they or anyone would mail out their original
films. Again you seem to want to engender strife. The ABMC is wrong to mail
out its original films (master copies) and this is a point which needs to be
considered. Not these petty gripes.

> such behavior from your Savior.

Dykes replies:
    If you take the time to actually read (and think about what you read)
the NT, you would note that Jesus (my Saviour, not Mary) was branded as a
heretic and cast out from the main religion of his own peoples. Many
consider his language as inflammatory, language which would hurt your demure
pretensions. In fact they wanted to kill Him for many things which He SAID.

> does- but I wouldn't- and Im glad Munster doesn't.

Dykes replies,

    Sounds schizophrenic. You would not be "glad" if you needed materials
which only Munster can provide. I am not a world traveller, and perhaps
unlike you, I have not the funds to go to Germany and spends weeks there in
hotels which collating numerous important manuscripts.  If you wish to
pursue this type of arguing, I suggest you go off line to me with your
insults.

at your service,
Mr. Gary S. Dykes